From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS22989 209.51.188.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD5521F463 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:20:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34970 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDSlP-0008AG-8v for e@80x24.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:20:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60806) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iDDmm-00007A-Hj for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:21:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDDmj-0007Fw-Ey for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:21:14 -0400 Received: from mx.kolabnow.com ([95.128.36.42]:22696) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iDDmi-0007ES-Uq for libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:21:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by ext-mx-out001.mykolab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44A982F for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:21:10 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mykolab.com; h= mime-version:content-type:content-type:references:in-reply-to :date:date:from:from:subject:subject:message-id:received :received:received; s=dkim20160331; t=1569442869; x=1571257270; bh=Lwl7rpUOZZMImrlkqus41sMz9SGJSc13XVhYE0l+3iU=; b=VmwnAsVMZ9Em xxBRkJF5TsnvldZFHXm2Wm2FhO4jq4S89ogkrzMoeXWOyoleCG9X7XmsGJ1Bdm3D KXss3O5JzQ8yMueSvqrtXBW+rnM2RYAzpj/4Tsm84o3IFALWy5OKDudXoQ5bKG5h 5D8cNffacMm8YFoltNdkpaRvZoQGT4KyPid5i8AuSwv/LGA19z9/KApapbKd5Fb0 bV7+DYrcFyIjE2/BrCHwuNaiLpDE2lRtbjGkzQ3aZfWCyI6lH+njBoFx3tTcWub1 kAPbyA5IKr+VGKDzKcJdmwgorfkLGqgjpY7+4u/TWBA9rKW2XklgoBxJ26Uh6GaE sGexw710vuXMMxW5KQ5U75+SNZ5IvpjhwAYb0lGeQFgraSZZk2Yl9P3CHPdjnmCu ZEY2EWpaPw/C+SydlMJxqi0SeE8jatgHN0OIHiQsG7pg72wqfyMwfnhNWFtpVv+u G1Ts+KRQtXaJpV4wcovFDdM1PsEwIXggSZa39MCkJfJzco7funSh7KKFyoyIi/xK c6p0D0nmvBaBjl/32nvfZ3DD2fNgr3AEgPuGVAyvlEhZE4WQ+oX21BAdZvabacsC efnSxiuFdZzTgQb2bWw4GIMJpfaFxaTZh6Zd5NghOXlFlsJVCu27WWo85LAG5Awt SRDssUObQ8XZIaH0O6QmaSVLuLtk0+o= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mykolab.com Received: from mx.kolabnow.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ext-mx-out001.mykolab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 57Cgkc-Tz6qr for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:21:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from int-mx003.mykolab.com (unknown [10.9.13.3]) by ext-mx-out001.mykolab.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 988E465E for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:21:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ext-subm001.mykolab.com (unknown [10.9.6.1]) by int-mx003.mykolab.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5148633ED for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:21:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <1569442861.15265.6.camel@mykolab.com> Subject: Re: Apologies From: Matt Ivie To: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:21:01 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20190925174627.91f3b89bfca639c226c0ddc3@minifree.org> References: <1569346946.8934.5.camel@opengroupware.ch> <838ea74a-ba42-d467-f042-f6043e67290e@riseup.net> <1569349597.11472.1.camel@opengroupware.ch> <20190925152948.5e7a10bda363c1a6ea946cb4@minifree.org> <1569422216.31207.1.camel@opengroupware.ch> <20190925174627.91f3b89bfca639c226c0ddc3@minifree.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 95.128.36.42 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:18:59 -0400 X-BeenThere: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3323814266906893738==" Errors-To: libreplanet-discuss-bounces+e=80x24.org@libreplanet.org Sender: "libreplanet-discuss" --===============3323814266906893738== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-DVAbVdN5BWE6nfvWhbeb" --=-DVAbVdN5BWE6nfvWhbeb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2019-09-25 at 17:46 +0100, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > The sad thing is that RMS is one of the champions of womens rights in > the free software world. He has said some stupid things in the past, > but he's a really nice guy and really supportive. He's always there > to > answer emails and offer guidance on things. He is one of my role > models. >=20 In my observation he's always supported equal rights for everyone. I've never seen anything from him that contradicts that. > He accepted my project (Libreboot) into the GNU project, after I came > out as transgender for instance. It didn't phase him at all. Later on > I > accused him and others of stuff and the project was ejected from GNU; > but he's a really nice guy. I later regretted the stuff I said about > him (back then I was ignorant and really fucked up as a person). He > came > to me *personally* (via email) a few months ago when he was working > on a > new article on his blog about using gender neutral pronouns in his > talks/articles, and asked me to proofread it and offer constructive > criticism (he emailed the draft to others too). >=20 > The thing is, I think Richard is probably high-functioning > autistic... > like me. He says stupid things sometimes, without taking into account > how other people will feel (because he can't. which is OK. I don't > understand other peoples emotions either). >=20 > It makes me really sad that he was brutalized by the media so much. > He > didn't deserve any of the abuse he got.=C2=A0 >=20 Many of the complaints that are being made against him seem to be coming from jokes he has made or opinions he has that people don't agree with. The difficult thing about all of these complaints is that they are hard to verify and it is one person's telling of the event. By saying this I don't mean any disrespect to people that have come forward with a complaint against him.=C2=A0 A behavior that is bothering me is that there are people that are attacking him as a person, but not specifically criticizing the things he's said. It's one thing to be offended by a joke that you find in bad taste, or to disagree with someone's opinion but to attack that person's character simply on those grounds, I find a bit excessive. I've observed that in the past RMS has made changes to his jokes and adjusted his opinions based on feedback and consideration of the material. I think it is okay to disagree with his ideas but it has made me sad to see some of these personal attacks. Leah, this is not directed at you but your comment really got me thinking specifically about this. I think we're all heading in the right direction as a community and we're trying to mend. I'd like to echo what someone else said on another thread and just say that I appreciate the positive tone and the respectful discussion that everyone is having. Free Software! Respectfully Matt Ivie > On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:36:56 +0000 'smee via > libreplanet-discuss wrote: >=20 > > That's what got me irritated. I'll have to keep in mind though that > > there may be real people who see the coordinated attack (maybe not > > seeing it for what it is) and see it as an opportunity to air their > > grievances or share their experiences.=C2=A0 > >=20 > > They do deserve to be listened to (and questioned), but I'll do > > better > > to consider that they're real people. I care about real people and > > real grievances. Coordinated, agenda-driven attacks, and how they > > play on real people's emotions, are despicable. > >=20 > > Thanks for your input. > >=20 > >=20 > > > Of course it was coordinated. You'd have to be an idiot not to > > > notice the blatant astroturfing > > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss >=20 > _______________________________________________ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss --=-DVAbVdN5BWE6nfvWhbeb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAABCAAdFiEEc7/Nj/faCETeAwgOqtCvQ36ckk4FAl2LzC0ACgkQqtCvQ36c kk6OZwv+JvdMDGMyfoQ4ZBflL+cAv3uSWFqwTIfWRJ8BfrFYXPV+CzKz572NP5b3 3v52hu3HyO28w0A9KQIQNKQeKvCUSd000MVRUlHdvY0/3+E34XiMGGxKTF+MCOXS +X3Pi+4vsbXdElvXXy9PfauI3pF0rWjjMse2lHYqJdlODin9ym1dD9lGKz+R7yFN tv7GBEUnvkb2YQC33MJ3FCvYOi7RBLDA02Zw/yp4xdqq+A+y7cRW2ce5T1Lss8ZS Hy7m9JhCbHnWZZa7gmVFw3WLKdJFu8nzrsbxSGSjeOU3iMO+8rsoIjwHfx+cTBDB YelzRDyIaLcDnGvYAoeACHBL8xYMC55CV2FS4hvaEeRLLXMIsKpc1d9B/WkTDRPZ 2AflIn5fGbWQIujbO3sNlvTbc90BPwYOtNI7Y/Dw3cS5Qxtf0T45eU4A87pMx2Zy WU5XOSj51GtafW1Nd/h8uwktAH4xdzJDSFR9FVtW3/AQ1oi5oV+CzC1sBQnuYDPe WPyLrGLU =YkWf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-DVAbVdN5BWE6nfvWhbeb-- --===============3323814266906893738== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbGlicmVwbGFu ZXQtZGlzY3VzcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGlicmVwbGFuZXQtZGlzY3Vzc0BsaWJyZXBsYW5ldC5v cmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5saWJyZXBsYW5ldC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9saWJyZXBs YW5ldC1kaXNjdXNz --===============3323814266906893738==--