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Rozycki" References: <10CAD3CD-0170-4182-A920-EE825EBAF6B0@rmrco.com> <95d9170b-d925-5037-c841-e1fd17bb680f@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tCgptUUlOQkV5QWNtUUJFQURB QXlIMnhvVHU3cHBHNUQzYThGTVpFb243NGRDdmM0K3ExWEEySjJ0QnkycHdhVHFmCmhweHhk R0E5Smo1MFVKM1BENGJTVUVnTjh0TFowc2FuNDdsNVhUQUZMaTI0NTZjaVNsNW04c0thSGxH ZHQ5WG0KQUF0bVhxZVpWSVlYL1VGUzk2ZkR6ZjR4aEVtbS95N0xiWUVQUWRVZHh1NDd4QTVL aFRZcDVibHRGM1dZRHoxWQpnZDdneDA3QXV3cDdpdzdlTnZub0RUQWxLQWw4S1lEWnpiRE5D UUdFYnBZM2VmWkl2UGRlSStGV1FONFcra2doCnkrUDZhdTZQcklJaFlyYWV1YTdYRGRiMkxT MWVuM1NzbUUzUWpxZlJxSS9BMnVlOEpNd3N2WGUvV0szOEV6czYKeDc0aVRhcUkzQUZINmls QWhEcXBNbmQvbXNTRVNORnQ3NkRpTzFaS1FNcjlhbVZQa25qZlBtSklTcWRoZ0IxRApsRWR3 MzRzUk9mNlY4bVp3MHhmcVQ2UEtFNDZMY0ZlZnpzMGtiZzRHT1JmOHZqRzJTZjF0azVlVThN Qml5Ti9iClowM2JLTmpOWU1wT0REUVF3dVA4NGtZTGtYMndCeHhNQWhCeHdiRFZadWR6eERa SjFDMlZYdWpDT0pWeHEya2wKakJNOUVUWXVVR3FkNzVBVzJMWHJMdzYrTXVJc0hGQVlBZ1Jy NytLY3dEZ0JBZndoUEJZWDM0blNTaUhsbUxDKwpLYUhMZUNMRjVaSTJ2S20zSEVlQ1R0bE9n N3haRU9OZ3d6TCtmZEtvK0Q2U29DOFJSeEpLczhhM3NWZkk0dDZDCm5yUXp2SmJCbjZneGRn Q3U1aTI5SjFRQ1lyQ1l2cWwyVXlGUEFLK2RvOTkvMWpPWFQ0bTI4MzZqMXdBUkFRQUIKdENC UVlYVnNJRVZuWjJWeWRDQThaV2RuWlhKMFFHTnpMblZqYkdFdVpXUjFQb2tDUGdRVEFRSUFL QVVDVElCeQpaQUliQXdVSkVzd0RBQVlMQ1FnSEF3SUdGUWdDQ1FvTEJCWUNBd0VDSGdFQ0Y0 QUFDZ2tRN1pmcERtS3FmalJSCkd3LytJajAzZGhZZllsL2dYVlJpdXpWMWdHcmJIayt0bmZy SS9DN2ZBZW9GelE1dFZnVmluU2hhUGtabzBIVFAKZjE4eDZJREVkQWlPOE1xbzF5cDBDdEht ekdNQ0o1MG80R3JnZmpscjZnLyt2dEVPS2JobGVzek4yWHBKdnB3TQoyUWdHdm4vbGFUTFV1 OFBIOWFSV1RzN3FKSlpLS0tBYjRzeFljOTJGZWhQdTZGT0QwZERpeWhsREFxNGxPVjJtCmRC cHpRYmlvam9aelFMTVF3anBnQ1RLMjU3MmVLOUVPRVF5U1VUaFhyU0l6NkFTZW5wNE5ZVEZI czl0dUpRdlgKazlnWkRkUFNsM2JwKzQ3ZEd4bHhFV0xwQklNN3pJT053NGtzNGF6Z1Q4bnZE WnhBNUlaSHR2cUJsSkxCT2JZWQowTGU2MVdwMHkzVGxCRGgycWRLOGVZTDQyNlc0c2NFTVN1 aWc1Z2I4T0F0UWlCVzZrMnNHVXh4ZWl2OG92V3U4CllBWmdLSmZ1b1dJK3VSbk1FZGRydVk4 SnNvTTU0S2FLdlppa2tLczJiZzFuZHRMVnpIcEo2cUZaQzdRVmplSFUKaDYvQm1ndmRqV1Ba WUZUdE4rS0E5Q1dYM0dRS0tnTjN1dTk4OHl6bkQ3TG5COThUNEVVSDFIQS9HbmZCcU1WMQpn cHpUdlBjNHFWUWluQ21Ja0VGcDgzemwrRzVmQ2pKSjNXN2l2ekNuWW80S2hLTHBGVW05N29r VEtSMkxXM3haCnpFVzRjTFNXTzM4N01USzNDekRPeDVxZTZzNGE5MVp1Wk0vai9UUWRUTERh cU5uODNrQTRIcTQ4VUhYWXhjSWgKK05kOGsvM3c2bEZ1b0swd3JPRml5d2pMeCswdXI1am1t YmVjQkdIYzF4ZGhBRkc1QWcwRVRJQnlaQUVRQUthRgo2NzhUOXd5SDR3alRyVjFQejNjREVv U25WLzBaVXJPVDM3cDFkY0d5ai9JWHExeDY3MEhSVmFoQW1rMHNacFljCjI1UEY5RDVHUFlI RldsTmp1UFU5NnJEbmRYQjNoZWRtQlJoTGRDNGJBWGpJNERWK2JtZFZlK3EvSU1ubFpSYVYK bG05RWlNQ1ZBUjZ3MTNzUmV1N3FYa1c5cjNSd1kyQXpYc2twL3RBZTRCUktyMVptYnZpMm5i blE2ZXBFQzQycgpSYngwQjFFaGpiSVFaNUpIR2syNGlQVDdMZEJnbk5tb3M1d1lqendObGtN UUQ1VDBZZHpoazdKK1V4d0E1bTQ2Cm1PaFJEQzJyRlYvQTBnbTVUTHk4RFhqdi9Fc2M0Z1lu WWFpNlNRcW5VRVZoNUx1VjhZQ0pCbmlqcytUaXc3MXgKMWljbW42eEdJNDVFdWdKT2dlYyty THlwWWdwVnA0eDBISTVUODhxQlJZQ2t4SDNLZzhRbytFV05BOUE0TFJROQpEWDhuam9uYTBn ZjBzMDN0b2NLOGtCTjY2VW9xcVB0SEJuYzRlTWdCeW1DZmxLMTJlS2ZkMllZeG55ZzljWmF6 CldBNVZzbHZUeHBtNzZoYmc1b2lBRUgvVmcvOE14SHlBblBoZnJnd3lQcm1KRWNWQmFmZHNw Sm5ZUXhCWU5jbzIKTEZQSWhsT3ZXaDhyNGF0K3MrTTNMYjI2b1VUY3psZ2RXMVNmM1NEQTc3 Qk1SbkYwRlF5RSs3QXpWNzlNQk40eQpraXFhZXpReHRhRjFGeS90dmtoZmZTbzh1K2R3RzBF Z0poK3RlMzhnVGNJU1ZyMEdJUHBsTHo2WWhqcmJIclBSCkYxQ041VXVMOURCR2p4dU4zNVJM TlZFZnRhNlJVRmxSNk5jdFRqdnJBQkVCQUFHSkFpVUVHQUVDQUE4RkFreUEKY21RQ0d3d0ZD UkxNQXdBQUNna1E3WmZwRG1LcWZqU3JIQS8rS3pBS3ZUeFJoQTlNV05MeEl5SjdTNXVKMTZn cwpUM29DalpyQktHRWhLTU9HWDRPMEdBNlZPRXJ5TzdRUkNDWWFoM294U0czOElBbk5laXdK WGdVOUJ6a2s4NVVHCmJQRWQ3SEdGL1ZTZUhDUXdXb3U2anFVRFRTRHZuOVloTlRkRzBLWFBN NzRhQyt4cjJab3cxTzJtaFhpaGdXS0QKMER3KzBMWVBuVU9zUTBLT0Z4SFhYWUhtUnJTMU9a UFU1OUJMdmMrVFJoSWhhZlNIS0x3YlhLKzZja2t4Qng2aAo4ejVjY3BHMFFzNGJGaGRGWW5G ckVpZURMb0dtbkUyWUxoZFY2c3dKOVZOQ1M2cExpRW9oVDNmbTdhWG0xNXRaCk9JeXpNWmhI UlNBUGJsWHhRMFpTV2pxOG9ScmNZTkZ4YzRXMVVScEFrQkNPWUpvWHZRZkQ1TDNscUFsOFRD cUQKVXpZeGhIL3RKaGJEZEhycUhINzY3amFEYVRCMStUYWxwLzJBTUt3Y1hOT2Rpa2xHeGJt SFZHNllHbDZnOExyYgpzdTlOWkVJNHlMbEh6dWlrdGhKV2d6KzN2WmhWR3lObHQrSE5Jb0Y2 Q2pETDJvbXU1Y0VxNFJESE00NFFxUGs2Cmw3TzBwVXZOMW1UNEIrUzFiMDhSS3BxbS9mZjAx NUUzN0hOVi9waUl2Smx4R0FZejhQU2Z1R0NCMXRoTVlxbG0KZ2RoZDkvQmFiR0ZiR0dZSEE2 VTQvVDV6cVUrZjZ4SHkxU3NBUVoxTVNLbEx3ZWtCSVQrNC9jTFJHcUNIam5WMApxNUgvVDZh N3Q1bVBrYnpTck9MU280cHVqK0lUb05qWXlZSURCV3pobEExOWF2T2ErcnZVam1IdEQzc0ZO N2NYCld0a0dvaThidU5jYnk0VT0KPUFMNm8KLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFBVQkxJQyBLRVkgQkxP Q0stLS0tLQo= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:23:27 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: libc-alpha@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-alpha mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Liam Stitt , Mike , GNU C Library Errors-To: libc-alpha-bounces@sourceware.org Sender: "Libc-alpha" On 7/31/20 11:22 AM, Frank da Cruz wrote: > Software development was not like > this when computing was dominated by companies like IBM and DEC, who were > dedicated to preserving their customers' investments in software because if > they didn't, they'd lose those customers. That wasn't my experience at all. IBM and DEC regularly broke user applications and said the equivalent of "If you don't like it, then just keep running the old OS on the old hardware." They then tried to sell you new stuff, and if you refused they eventually stopped supporting the old stuff. For example, circa 1978 if you wanted to use a PDP-11/70 and selected DEC's operating system RSTS, you would have been kinda out of luck by around 1983 when the PDP-11/70 was obsolete. DEC told customers to switch to VAX/VMS, and gave some upgrade paths (late-1970s VAX hardware would emulate PDP-11s and if you threw DEC some more money VMS would support RSTS user processes, albeit inefficiently) but DEC dropped those upgrade paths in later VAX hardware and you were stuck. The last RSTS release was in 1992 and DEC stopped supporting RSTS soon after. Had you selected Unix instead in 1978, you'd have been golden. Your software would still run today, with only minor changes. I still run some personal Unix-based software now that I originally ran on a PDP-11 in the late 1970s. And it wasn't just DEC. I remember the FAA using IBM mainframes in their air traffic control systems designed in the 1960s and written in 360 assembler with CCW programs. The FAA kept running this stuff on an old IBM OS on old IBM hardware until IBM told them around 1980 that IBM wouldn't support it any more. IBM then sold the FAA on a replacement system called AAS that cost billions and never worked. See for some of this sad history. Although I'm sure one can cite examples of old-time backward compatibility, I'm exceedingly skeptical that the old days were any better than now overall in that department. Quite the contrary. In particular, the GNU C library is *much* better about backward compatibility than IBM and DEC were in the "good old days".