From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from sourceware.org (server2.sourceware.org [8.43.85.97]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6B711F5AE for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:45:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server2.sourceware.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2933E3857C50; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:45:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx0b-00364e01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00364e01.pphosted.com [148.163.139.74]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EDD53858D38 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 19:45:33 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 3EDD53858D38 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=columbia.edu Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=fd1@columbia.edu Received: from pps.filterd (m0167076.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00364e01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 06OJbbqe011850 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:45:33 -0400 Received: from sendprodmail12.cc.columbia.edu (sendprodmail12.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.72.20]) by mx0b-00364e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 32bt6twnvs-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:45:32 -0400 Received: from mail-il1-f199.google.com (mail-il1-f199.google.com [209.85.166.199]) by sendprodmail12.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 06OJjWti029113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:45:32 -0400 Received: by mail-il1-f199.google.com with SMTP id z16so6376704ill.7 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 12:45:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DwEJSKFT8LXX8xzoFX6ICPWZnqY5XpdNZggCfwhxzYA=; b=D5w+jWPNyWhLHFT+myr0sCyIQ/3OpROCLq/80nvzUlikgnNhhZO7zWGm5UZRZ+IUGz QNP1Jgj0hcvrvK5/pV7sbG4x6dtlCH+YJaduH2BE7pzS7IHG1pNJH3cBZAjqS9q3tQ9I XtmGTK+Fj6oKFD5ABVNrzNct/n5BYQSi8C1ZNJrXSnlu+TMAkAXsYKQlkjO2vdXTFodh i3tJbrwa4FxP1pyZ1xXvqQkao/kPCBvs7tHjTBz81Q7ElE1dkBYsGSj/zOBm1L5fw5z6 K0VCujMrS0AplbvTV3FVCnUs6UGKrTwQHSYzc8Z6xJEme78sDVyh8tWVDl3d9pNVP4YM f9zQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530unSbgYQ4zwiXAyxD36/kDcKQW+fA0Qk7EE9YcF0NnAimDWERd Sc2X98GowGvyV+Q0lO7gldhf7ZMCEVz+Komxt4EqihEuFjBVb3X1TqNJ2RQHvvuDzgIIfzq5YD3 yHRepXNY5JiEGWmcnog0Ejg7GLNYnk5KNuw6CKEfatgMx X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:1512:: with SMTP id g18mr11955836iow.63.1595619931576; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJya+wtU0X83ZBylnJbPmQQ/LqxS2UaEF8fHysBANj0gtSD7NuMHRMrZjBsPk9rStM4zVHllbEOsZdZqOi74fz4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:1512:: with SMTP id g18mr11955812iow.63.1595619931225; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <10CAD3CD-0170-4182-A920-EE825EBAF6B0@rmrco.com> <95d9170b-d925-5037-c841-e1fd17bb680f@cs.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Frank da Cruz Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:45:19 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: C-kermit fails To: Frank da Cruz X-CU-OB: Yes X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-07-24_08:2020-07-24, 2020-07-24 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: libc-alpha@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-alpha mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Liam Stitt , GNU C Library , Mike Errors-To: libc-alpha-bounces@sourceware.org Sender: "Libc-alpha" Sorry, I pasted a wrong URL into my last message; the new C-Kermit version (for testing only), 9.0.305 Alpha.01 is here: http://kermitproject.org/ckdaily.html - Frank On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 3:41 PM Frank da Cruz wrote: > Somebody else sent a simpler patch, you can see it here: > > http://kermitproject.org/ckglibc228.diff > > Ever since yesterday I've had mail coming in from people who reported that > different Linux distributors (e.g. Debian, Ubuntu) had dropped C-Kermit > from their packages collection. They were surprised when apt-get said, > nope, we don't have that. In some cases, these people are in a big rush > because of some emergency or deadline. So casually removing something from > your header files is kind of like a COVID-19 virus, it strikes a few people > at first and then starts multiplying, affecting end-users and developers > alike. The cardinal rule for OS developers was once "maintain backwards > compatibility" or more simply stated, "do no harm". I've been a programmer > since 1965 if you can believe it, and have watched helplessly as this rule > started being thrown out the window starting around 1990. > > I just put up a new C-Kermit version that has a simpler patch, please let > me know if you see a problem with it; it was sent to me by someone else; at > present I don't have access to anything but Red Hat and NetBSD: > > http://kermitproject.org/ckglibc228.diff > > I'm going to be forced to turn this into a real release ASAP, long before > I was planning to, and I would hope that the Linux packagers who tossed > C-Kermit will put it back once this settles down (and better still, that > they contact me when they find out about a problem). You have only heard > about C-Kermit so far, but how do you know other applications won't be > affected? It's better to leave things in, especially in libc. If we can't > depend on libc, what's the use in even trying to write stable software? > > Anyway another problem with your patch is, believe or not, C-Kermit is > written to be buildable on platforms going back to the 1970s (Bell Research > Unix V8) and 80s (HP-UX 5.0) so compound #if statements can't be used. > > I'd encourage you to put the missing symbol (and code supporting it) back > in glibc and be more careful about removing things that "nobody uses" or > "nobody *should* use". But since the new glibc is already out in the > wild, I'll still have to support the systems that have the missing symbol > from now on, just like I still support dentists' offices that have ancient > versions of SCO Xenix. > > - Frank > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:47 PM Paul Eggert wrote: > >> On 7/24/20 10:36 AM, Zack Weinberg wrote: >> > The symbol that was removed (_IO_file_flags) was never a documented >> > part of the stdio interface. >> >> True, though lots of programs want to know about stdio readahead and it's >> unfortunate that glibc and other C libraries don't provide a documented >> way to >> get it. >> >> We have a Gnulib module for discovering stdio readahead. As seen here: >> >> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/gnulib.git/tree/lib/freadahead.c#n36 >> >> Gnulib uses the guard "#if defined _IO_EOF_SEEN || defined >> _IO_ftrylockfile || >> __GNU_LIBRARY__ == 1" to be as portable as possible to various glibc-like >> libraries, so I suggest the attached minimal patch to C-Kermit. >> >