From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from sourceware.org (server1.sourceware.org [209.132.180.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F7751F461 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 15:19:34 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; q=dns; s=default; b=MsPW TquCkVvN+w4B1MALboMRFf1MQ+38znSOXCJlHhhze1o2zzH7Mlz2e0KPns4RK7xW bxIPne/vx8GZtnqhmvrG/uHaQuKqflrhvX1v083U6yLCvkjopVNvPow4jtv85dYB Xf1zcOehNhbZLFAIIycgz04mNfdHjpQFOzIRVjk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; s=default; bh=U2HIe/eJ3T HWWkKBSeBmWWE6sZI=; b=W/yNcnPbK1LBGjMI5ptTf+M5a6w3SaIxuUkRcY5FQy eOpXok8awKvq9FL2INxtgmYhZdSnxJy7Itxs5YG9MOYIj4f1JX37TFfF9x3wUWKm 2RkX85D1/+dT5PGeXI5s79VOEcYBfOGj3DyP14Ye3CSxA+rCFYKElaFJ3iybP+PT g= Received: (qmail 56311 invoked by alias); 16 Jul 2019 15:19:32 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-alpha-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-alpha-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 56262 invoked by uid 89); 16 Jul 2019 15:19:31 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-HELO: mail-vs1-f47.google.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+fWu5ArXOuCXL5zQCsmqWQj0IHHO+AP29HAgKLys8ts=; b=fctowjNKgPdacJ76Q1VnML7dOhjp8K1PVZsn8i2iQ7bdj7+eqQS9cEDnwnWmkGC6HC MwCL22VT3PTBOyhii/5NA9QTCb81hEWPTF6L9LOLSuvjFAsOM+gz+7TS4g+iwXGdiV9+ FufUpgNoghAxLtrjcxI9vpeO+9/bWfISFKjzDSyStLs7G+fVBd2xFIki5F9/URECg7T9 R1kn8f3GGXy1Dm4D1+6zY15yk/G9ubsNl27ZhO+75BndMVqccM9893469KJveCTS4bO0 CpASG0jWrGiIK1SjUbVGmzwUPNsNoawD3Nut/Tg6bZ/Yv7T0phhSCCDZvlfi4sPuiPLj mncg== MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190712072103.D3DBC24003A@gemini.denx.de> <874l3mjgi6.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> <20190716145216.1C7CE240085@gemini.denx.de> <87muheggnt.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <87muheggnt.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> From: Andrew Pinski Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 08:19:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Accelerating Y2038 glibc fixes To: Florian Weimer Cc: Wolfgang Denk , GNU C Library , Lukasz Majewski Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 8:09 AM Florian Weimer wrote: > > * Wolfgang Denk: > > > In message <874l3mjgi6.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> you wrote: > >> > >> One difficult trade-off is that for you, this is just one-time > >> enablement work, but the regular contributors will be stuck with the > >> code you add forever. Especially since it touches 64-bit architectures > >> as well. > > > > I am aware of this, and I'm willing to go all necessary procedures > > to get things right. If someone points out a problem, we can > > address it, and move on. But we haven't seen any progress for a > > long time... > > This is not what I meant, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Are you > offering a long-term collaboration on a varied range of topics? Or just > this one contribution of a single feature? > > >> For me personally, the whole project is quite baffling. I'm interested > >> in 32-bit changes only to support legacy binaries, and this is new work > >> targeting new binaries. > > > > Indeed it is easy for all the big distros who dropped (at least > > commercial) support for 32 bit systems years ago. > > Red Hat still supports 32-bit legacy applications. I'm sure SUSE does > as well. > > Newer operating system releases do not come with a 32-bit kernel > anymore, but we have a 32-bit userspace (mostly consisting of libraries > to support existing legacy application), so we still need glibc. I should point out a recent case where Ubuntu mentioned they would be removing the 32bit userspace and some closed source commerical software (Steam) said they would be pulling support for Ubuntu. This forced Ubuntu to change their mind. This happened within the last few weeks. I don't know if this is something we as glibc project as to worry about but it does give second thoughts to the bigger distros at removing 32bit userland support or even supporting a new framented ABI. Thanks, Andrew Pinski > > > I think this is part of the problem - the big distros are not really > > interested in this work, they see it only as a nuisance to their > > business cases. I cannot stop myself from stating that such an > > approach is egotistic at best, if not ignorant, or both. > > I would even go one step further: For i386, the upcoming ABI > fragmentation impacts our users even if they are never going to use the > new capabilities. > > There also appears to be an expectation that all applications which > invoke the futex system call directly need to be changed at the source > code level. This will affect many upstream projects, even if they > primarily target 64-bit architectures. > > Thanks, > Florian