From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from sourceware.org (server1.sourceware.org [209.132.180.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAF18211B5 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 00:52:25 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=default; b=wODugpN2OPPitFzo IaAJKo/742emTX/U3r0lR6xBucQt8fjDsm+WcSPq2JmvYeZiyozDvX8YBCoblRFV SWExA4ORctRoYn3vtU99Dwb8sySPylruLbT4saSg+/lT5yIdRNO4HQ27uYJuNSic 7umrea0+nKJwcoffOjyphc9zQgU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=default; bh=4t8fS2kLADB/kqX0zIK1gn 0YZ+E=; b=AM8JUzfCLgKwV7wxH5XbafmDrJvqCsw7vvdbjygiTGivTbhsxesGxm UEAYakjNQcuLXIMZVsQUsAvP78SzXkf6fDAzT5GeyqMiyzmV01XFivm5JTB1BM4M ISD4ofVFJTQ90oWf5+/l3Oo4TKCGniIoZNVEv1XSUQWrE82dNLHns= Received: (qmail 95042 invoked by alias); 20 Dec 2018 00:52:22 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-alpha-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-alpha-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 95018 invoked by uid 89); 20 Dec 2018 00:52:22 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-HELO: smtprelay.synopsys.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=synopsys.com; s=mail; t=1545267138; bh=Jw36GOf6asHe7o9ZENpt2SI6Y0emMtPATbwX8uuFFlg=; h=Subject:To:CC:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=HYR7TckcO8xYV+wza8YLCDv3xcp9XFGK+AyOsKgFwCNIsNwzWb82jSPzAmTgvA9R8 O6cKbHwV+cI5SlvwHRwTFdNmh2r+wn3jIvnqkeHpB0ouWNqHuZDh+DAMjYwdVDZpKS Dca+VjZqxew+HKLRcs6I6Ibvazuk6dHpA2Q0XWObnfJ1ihrQpEtXQLvzESm9+RnxrX 3yEhy4UUkrsDyNJ290b8aSCwcyD+/56DURm0r/OtbaGnTxqsyZuCtxvvrNuSD8KDXe eyuv6RPJtVoiCyf+KAExpWE9zcLuzri1VF0RP/cCPL/9mL7gsL344FIesso+H9wpDS hUre8Pcy/rnhQ== Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/21] glibc port to ARC processors To: Joseph Myers CC: Francois Bedard , , Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lib.glibc.alpha,gmane.linux.kernel.arc References: <1545167083-16764-1-git-send-email-vgupta@synopsys.com> <228be09c-0d23-d77c-ab45-0ffb69f7f5a1@synopsys.com> From: Vineet Gupta Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <89503516-ce73-0749-4290-31dd932b496d@synopsys.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:51:59 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 12/19/18 4:14 PM, Joseph Myers wrote: > On Wed, 19 Dec 2018, Vineet Gupta wrote: > >> On 12/18/18 3:11 PM, Joseph Myers wrote: >>> Another general point: when posting a new port, could you include pointers >>> to architecture and ABI reference manuals in case those are of relevance >>> to the review? (URLs going directly to PDFs of those manuals are >>> preferred.) >> >> The PRM (Programmer's Reference Manual) is not open source and per corporate >> policy requires license agreement, signing NDA... > > It's very questionable whether we should consider a port for inclusion in > glibc at all without public architecture documentation IMHO this seems excessive. We've successfully open-sourced significant ports such as Linux kernel, gcc, binutils etc. gcc atleast deals with instruction semantics at a much closer level than glibc perse and that didn't get in the way then. Being an open source developer myself I agree with your reservations, but the reality is what Ted Tso so nicely put in at [1] | "It's something I do worry about; and I do share your concern. At the | same time, the reality is that we are a little like the Old Dutch | Masters, who had take into account the preference of their patrons | (i.e., in our case, those who pay our paychecks :-)" [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/446626/ > (that is, > documentation of instruction semantics; not necessarily documentation of > microarchitectural performance characteristics etc.). I understand the intent is all good faith and justified... > Various kinds of > changes can require a developer to refer to documentation across the range > of architectures supported by glibc, if something requires assembly > implementations across architectures (e.g. some of Adhemerval's changes to > thread cancellation; or when I added fegetmode / fesetmode, that required > referring to various architecture documentation to identify what bits > should be considered mode bits, on each architecture where floating-point > status and control bits occupy a single register). To be honest folks on lkml do sweeping arch changes, PeterZ is one good example and he has infact changed ARC assembly at times w/o access to PRM. Given the arrangement we have now, perhaps such changes can call in for review from port maintainer etc. > (Non-NDA click-throughs, like the Arm one agreeing not to use the manual > to find if Arm implementations violate any patents, are OK No that is not possible: I've discussed this with power may-be in the past and again today and this is not going to happen. Thx, -Vineet