From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_EF,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from sourceware.org (server1.sourceware.org [209.132.180.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7803C1F461 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 15:09:33 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-type; q=dns; s=default; b=NNBc9 z64UOoF+FcfI99DKc/geB4YpBnK3Xr/RdESa2sSo3e+gpHpA+BPIy3LW+8/Df8kR 62A29skW5Fyhoo6y5m5b/kt8G+SR5PuvsPGsLpp2LA+PXIGyaQ5thGW7KkNXNXR+ eZ0p9Ih2801yhyE2CkcoPXbG789V6YBCX1Ou3g= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=default; bh=UQY4ffQamR7 oARXtfDvxV/XFLjM=; b=yEiJnfpGPC7lAz0AjjKyCw8xiTHaEQbbhBjZR8bzuAB s5g5VvpkG1biwqeKPKy3XCg4coRujGbNZj5BmncKYZhOeP+jaqRMr0iuICkcOVRy 85oClI2qW4koCyae6cLr9Xa/5yEoHXdD/JPaM4C//GpH5TIeGt3rzlMGhrAnV/aM = Received: (qmail 116836 invoked by alias); 16 Jul 2019 15:09:31 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-alpha-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-alpha-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 116825 invoked by uid 89); 16 Jul 2019 15:09:30 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-HELO: mx1.redhat.com From: Florian Weimer To: Wolfgang Denk Cc: libc-alpha@sourceware.org, Lukasz Majewski Subject: Re: Accelerating Y2038 glibc fixes References: <20190712072103.D3DBC24003A@gemini.denx.de> <874l3mjgi6.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> <20190716145216.1C7CE240085@gemini.denx.de> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 17:09:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190716145216.1C7CE240085@gemini.denx.de> (Wolfgang Denk's message of "Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:52:16 +0200") Message-ID: <87muheggnt.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain * Wolfgang Denk: > In message <874l3mjgi6.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> you wrote: >> >> One difficult trade-off is that for you, this is just one-time >> enablement work, but the regular contributors will be stuck with the >> code you add forever. Especially since it touches 64-bit architectures >> as well. > > I am aware of this, and I'm willing to go all necessary procedures > to get things right. If someone points out a problem, we can > address it, and move on. But we haven't seen any progress for a > long time... This is not what I meant, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Are you offering a long-term collaboration on a varied range of topics? Or just this one contribution of a single feature? >> For me personally, the whole project is quite baffling. I'm interested >> in 32-bit changes only to support legacy binaries, and this is new work >> targeting new binaries. > > Indeed it is easy for all the big distros who dropped (at least > commercial) support for 32 bit systems years ago. Red Hat still supports 32-bit legacy applications. I'm sure SUSE does as well. Newer operating system releases do not come with a 32-bit kernel anymore, but we have a 32-bit userspace (mostly consisting of libraries to support existing legacy application), so we still need glibc. > I think this is part of the problem - the big distros are not really > interested in this work, they see it only as a nuisance to their > business cases. I cannot stop myself from stating that such an > approach is egotistic at best, if not ignorant, or both. I would even go one step further: For i386, the upcoming ABI fragmentation impacts our users even if they are never going to use the new capabilities. There also appears to be an expectation that all applications which invoke the futex system call directly need to be changed at the source code level. This will affect many upstream projects, even if they primarily target 64-bit architectures. Thanks, Florian