From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_EF,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from sourceware.org (server1.sourceware.org [209.132.180.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E89961F461 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:05:16 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to; q=dns; s=default; b=s2KI QJ4CuvHNmAWVeMzRIuiMHxK/yUN4aa8kHS5M1yU1xEIMD95IYF3QOxmV1c06la/2 BvHgmyaGd7dLOWGksKu5McxNd7It5E25RTJ3q2sxt6NlgLm+9F7Zg8WBglCnMccx DYscXaKfhsisyjF0govKghmIK64kRs0SyxnIXJo= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to; s=default; bh=emdxhwQpiV unwT0cCIZrKOD763U=; b=YSoo8TyRSkyYkvwDNp3Hu54V2JQ97ET+EovowG5eB4 5rhW6FDtgUw4jiwkjpa9kEEEPFoxSh5ElN7KcT50qXBCIVs4gjzBbZN6Wvt3sfKC 0o67hQghszcoo/rA12i5wJQq5NrF6fVPedcNl+QETa4x3xPRR6ODFmx4UkyPFV1y Q= Received: (qmail 72633 invoked by alias); 27 Jun 2019 13:05:14 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-alpha-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-alpha-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 72603 invoked by uid 89); 27 Jun 2019 13:05:13 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-HELO: vmicros1.altlinux.org Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:05:09 +0300 From: "Dmitry V. Levin" To: Szabolcs Nagy Cc: Carlos O'Donell , nd , Christian Brauner , Zack Weinberg , libc-alpha@sourceware.org Subject: Re: glibc at the Toolchains microconference at LPC 2019 Message-ID: <20190627130509.GA27536@altlinux.org> References: <87o92kibdz.fsf@oldenburg2.str.redhat.com> <20190626163908.GA13251@altlinux.org> <530DF2A2-2D76-43F6-81D0-405EFE097A57@brauner.io> <5f740811-e7d7-6ece-4156-89651666e416@redhat.com> <20190627093928.GA25423@altlinux.org> <16b23696-9318-714b-07f2-5a57c7c57ed3@arm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16b23696-9318-714b-07f2-5a57c7c57ed3@arm.com> --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:05:24AM +0000, Szabolcs Nagy wrote: > On 27/06/2019 10:39, Dmitry V. Levin wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 05:04:52PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote: > > [...] > >> Could you please review the language here: > >> https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/Consensus#WIP:_Kernel_syscalls_wrapp= ers > >=20 > > I suggest adding that there is no need to add wrappers for those syscal= ls > > that already have dedicated libraries. > >=20 > > For example, such multiplexers as bpf(2) and keyctl(2) already have > > dedicated libraries (libbpf and libkeyutils, respectively) that provide > > APIs on top of these raw syscalls. >=20 > there are many issues doing raw syscalls e.g. > the x32 type mess or cancellation support. Yet raw syscalls have always been in use and this is not going to change. If there are issues, we should consider providing appropriate interfaces for invoking raw syscalls without these issues. > external library projects can have different level > of quality, supported abis, header conformance, > security process etc. and they almost always mix > libc and linux uapi headers and types. This is all true but ... > so i'm against relying on external libraries > doing raw syscalls (they may provide additional > functionality but the syscall itself should > be in libc) =2E.. some syscalls seem to have interfaces explicitly designed to scare regular users off and encourage them to use library functions instead. bpf(2) and keyctl(2) are examples of such interfaces, providing glibc wrappers for them would mislead people into invoking these system calls directly. --=20 ldv --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJdFL8FAAoJEAVFT+BVnCUIwF4QAJ+BPlGayjItHDuURVQv6O9m JMPbX2lqocHZN33UJK06Pvh/IvM77njlwJM8yM9ZYlMMVAnU32ESEY6/5B1uAsBU qpn+BI1cuN/XMXPupAhSyXkY4WAzTWSPmcHTKTgnABfCfViZjnainGxyPrhsJdMp otkM/RE023VbBeaHrH81hb/KmjtA55k09MiXjPcLHcyk9xEAIvOy4okE10/2Aww+ UF//9iVIrQ0ugLHwu/CUAxGVzWsetQC7QP/HMIooou49pF2A7kMnuSPTFwsaTqLN lKmFF2RItkE0h+eh+cmmKHgkyjawk/FJCf2mnUD4ODHOu3EOjOG6B2kdzFypLdgG GnEwzSpDn6STGO12qvJrLwLQwUImSVhM5vOhwm8U2aGMoCroldjpgoMb6Z4ZeHI6 jYx9PBd6fXJzI+nSm69v5DfUeFRjBUU6CV0gfz/he3YerQ3VXpvQTJZ/nN0IyYdT QOVMVZCqC5IwaHqBX03TLcI4yYKD5iPF4t0SR30KufmdotYQybikRYfnC6gsu5q6 VVLYz3AuYjSeQyhANcIxhW4Uax1ZSlR0wBVhScEhlwvjr+S3sr90fxgqwStQ9/ud hk0jUEOlv+ZAzChP/y++6ZajhN7rnlLa6btnx3XTcAIWU4g4oI2JOnA2BvM7ygaZ lP5aa/hUmMU5MaMlpe7M =WX/u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv--