From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS53758 23.128.96.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EF21F5AE for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 06:03:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229811AbhFOGFA (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:05:00 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com ([173.228.157.53]:51710 "EHLO pb-smtp21.pobox.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229493AbhFOGFA (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:05:00 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA10A13CBAF; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:02:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=sasl; bh=MO1Yz1JW9iVu uIxxqEPld4CCHMBwvicMxg+eW4ap2qc=; b=PXc2OW/EcUTLMsPDWa7vE114buUS ZICuCwNKKW8qAqXKGjLbf4hPig2tToKqNF9rO9hiE9BVGnF4yYVlHv2k1B7CpH3V cnZFmyZyqon8iJk2Y3OjeOEbuqSsm0jDNL2hXo13fXqtQHLCAXc++WiLVfTGtnIA iUjGFQc3nMxxBxA= Received: from pb-smtp21.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2DD713CBAE; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:02:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) Received: from pobox.com (unknown [104.196.36.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EEC0413CBAD; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:02:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) From: Junio C Hamano To: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason Cc: Derrick Stolee , "brian m. carlson" , Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget , git@vger.kernel.org, jrnieder@gmail.com, emilyshaffer@google.com, Andrei Rybak , Felipe Contreras , Robert Karszniewicz , Jeff King , "Kerry, Richard" , Derrick Stolee Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate References: <87a6nz2fda.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <87pmwt1dz3.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <87h7i21a43.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:02:51 +0900 In-Reply-To: <87h7i21a43.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> (=?utf-8?B?IsOGdmFyIEFy?= =?utf-8?B?bmZqw7Zyw7A=?= Bjarmason"'s message of "Sun, 13 Jun 2021 09:17:21 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 52584880-CD9F-11EB-ACDB-FA9E2DDBB1FC-77302942!pb-smtp21.pobox.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org =C3=86var Arnfj=C3=B6r=C3=B0 Bjarmason writes: > Or, if we just fix these existing occurrences as a one-off there'll be > no existing examples of it in-tree, and as people tend to imitate > existing documentation they're unlikely to introduce new > occurrences. I suspect that may be a bit too optimistic. It is too easy to discuss interaction among users and introduce pronouns to refer to them, and when it happens, it is far easier to have a document to point at and tell them why we want them to rephrase if not how exactly. For that reason, I'd prefer to have some word about the desire to make examples and explanations gender-neutral in the guidelines. The mechanics we recommend to achieve the goal does not have to be specified if we want brevity---that can be learned by imitating existing practices. > If and when Felipe's <20210611202819.47077-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com= > > is applied how small is the diff you'll still have rebased on top of > that? I just retried a "competing" merge that got ugly ;-) Between Derrick's two "singular they" patches (one for comments, the other for docs) and Felipe's two patches (the same split), they touch identical base text. Only the way they neuter the description is different, and to me the latter feels a bit more ESL friendly. So, the main things that are missing from Felipe's version that we may want to build on top before the whole discussion can be concluded are: - Derrick's "typofix" patch, but if I recall correctly it needed a fix-up in one of its hunks? - Guidelines; you had a more generic readability tips that would (incidentally) result in nudging the writers to be more gender neutral, which I think is going in the right direction, but I do prefer to see an explicit mention of gender-neutrality as one bullet item. Thanks.