From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from sy.mirrors.kernel.org (sy.mirrors.kernel.org [IPv6:2604:1380:40f1:3f00::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46B101F44D for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 21:32:59 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: dcvr.yhbt.net; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=sasl header.b=Xst5pZ2a; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from smtp.subspace.kernel.org (wormhole.subspace.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sy.mirrors.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D440EB233E2 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 21:32:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D436C1F922; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 21:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b="Xst5pZ2a" Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (pb-smtp20.pobox.com [173.228.157.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C5021EB5C for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 21:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=173.228.157.52 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1713821454; cv=none; b=dA5acSUbyBPXn4o25cPU8YEqgjHFpGueNlIqXdlsfN9K/J+81qbr9abcCAOE1OfmNBcCMO/gFpZTdc3FbWOI9Qb1S2QFEQglQzUfRsdVttFWSeqYFgtDhlp7EF965rzC+sVe7C0x9QWNHrAxUCXGIctjg1oVCzz1oj04cU8tr8c= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1713821454; c=relaxed/simple; bh=iJaO4g8BykE/SmRI5exNSU0FFSGpF6DOH5vFTVJJ8Cg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=fJNVm/eoa4h/w4H68i8h4Mku7lgsQnrW23bV0UdzS5ui8rwLEnk08HHNrG2+KJwqPw8hCSnduDaVaTEXLHl8v78PnwyTxHkjPKtliZ8YufsoIz9AWy1h/hDkqzsqQBWrEHyT/8tl0OX8PhHIoRYN7fk8/H91DZRgfrzngS7upv8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=pobox.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pobox.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b=Xst5pZ2a; arc=none smtp.client-ip=173.228.157.52 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=pobox.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=pobox.com Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2F42B91C; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 17:30:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=sasl; bh=iJaO4g8BykE/SmRI5exNSU0FFSGpF6DOH5vFTV JJ8Cg=; b=Xst5pZ2amdo8vqS5iPiMPdAQXf9+K2m6XAf6gHoblVPlnY0xMTQziT oULtF4bFiUgwwtMb4eHaT2KTu/sq2yfqCPiUKlFcCxCOvrXqbfbYuqJrq4gntIYH 48+24HT+P6gzOdg0WEdzfs9CE3Mwa7BNii7FopCO/LNRqt8VbPbpw= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CFF2B91B; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 17:30:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) Received: from pobox.com (unknown [34.125.120.109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F7C92B91A; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 17:30:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) From: Junio C Hamano To: Josh Steadmon Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, avarab@gmail.com, christian.couder@gmail.com, me@ttaylorr.com Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] doc: describe the project's decision-making process In-Reply-To: (Josh Steadmon's message of "Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:10:40 -0700") References: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:30:47 -0700 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 96506578-00EF-11EF-AAD1-F515D2CDFF5E-77302942!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Josh Steadmon writes: > While clearly nothing has been decided on those topics, it seems to me > at least that they follow a pattern of "discussion now, consensus > (hopefully) soon, implementation later". > > Or do you think it's more accurate to say that we rarely/never make > decisions without patches? As I said, I do think it is rare for us to start with only "ideas" without anything concrete to comment on, and that is why I asked some references (e.g., URLs into the archive) to a discussion in the past of a larger decisions where (1) something is proposed, (2) discussed, and (3) declaration that a consensus has reached, if a document describes the status quo. > Does that mean it's pointless to start a > discussion without a patch series attached? It does not necessarily mean it is not worth trying to do it more often that we have done it rarely. Is it desirable to make more larger decisions to implement changes that take longer effort and deeper commitments? As long as we can have a meaningful discussion, the "anything concrete to comment on" I mentioned earlier in the previous paragraph does not have to be a patch series. > I'm trying to decide whether it's worth editing this doc for V2, > or just starting over with a much smaller one instead. And if the lack of documented process is a factor that contributes to the rarity of such decisions, it is a reasonable goal to have a documented process. And learning from past sucesses (and failures) by starting a document that describes the status quo is a good idea.