From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS53758 23.128.96.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2761F5AE for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 02:47:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231967AbhFPCtP (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:49:15 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com ([173.228.157.52]:56614 "EHLO pb-smtp20.pobox.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S231863AbhFPCtO (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:49:14 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 554C412F210; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:47:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=sasl; bh=sDGjSzol4kMC r0hlxSRB2yrz/r7ha5jYsrAnSqEXTQg=; b=f2y3QxnjR0Y3vOjtfDnK4d6fwfvJ 5thx+qhiyhHKSXwlUqeQPAix0K7jlCmcxteDqA7gV7weLNPd7/F/cXZlVXKZHB0k 67oslT2+gOR2kCcNndbhEYa5gplRSfEmEF4rIdHp5vCd2827LMN2Gnxxy04toR6v ooHCLSyj1GU3tyY= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CCE212F20F; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:47:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) Received: from pobox.com (unknown [104.196.36.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8CBC12F20E; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 22:47:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) From: Junio C Hamano To: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason Cc: Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget , git@vger.kernel.org, sandals@crustytoothpaste.net, stolee@gmail.com, jrnieder@gmail.com, emilyshaffer@google.com, Andrei Rybak , Felipe Contreras , Robert Karszniewicz , Jeff King , "Kerry, Richard" , Phillip Susi , Johannes Schindelin , Bagas Sanjaya , Derrick Stolee , Derrick Stolee Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they References: <87a6nryt51.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 11:47:05 +0900 In-Reply-To: <87a6nryt51.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> (=?utf-8?B?IsOGdmFyIEFy?= =?utf-8?B?bmZqw7Zyw7A=?= Bjarmason"'s message of "Tue, 15 Jun 2021 18:19:53 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 23778446-CE4D-11EB-A2C2-D5C30F5B5667-77302942!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org =C3=86var Arnfj=C3=B6r=C3=B0 Bjarmason writes: > On Tue, Jun 15 2021, Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget wrote: > ... >> + In order to ensure the documentation is inclusive, avoid assuming >> + that an unspecified example person is male or female, and think >> + twice before using "he", "him", "she", or "her". Here are some >> + tips to avoid use of gendered pronouns: >> + >> + - Removing the example person might make the sentence more >> + clear and efficient. Instead of saying "The programmer >> + chooses between X and Y as she sees fit", it is clearer to >> + say "Valid choices are X and Y". >> + >> + - If you need to talk about an example person, then try using >> + second-person to allow the reader to be that example. For >> + example, "If you want X to happen, you'd pass option Y", >> + instead of "If the user wants X to happen, she'd ..."). >> + Alternatively, replace the single example with more than one >> + person and use plural "they", such as "Interested readers >> + can read 'git log -p README' to learn the history in their >> + ample spare time" instead of "an interested reader" learning >> + in "his" spare time). >> + >> + - If you absolutely need to refer to an example person that is >> + third-person singluar, you may resort to "singular they" (e.g. "singular". By the way, I do not mind toning down "if you absolutely need to ... resort to" that discourages "singular they". I just wanted writers to consider that the language evolves slowly, and if they think "singular they" is the best vehicle to phrase what they want to say even after considering that it may sound distracting to foreigners, I would not stop them. > To be fair he does go on to say something that suggests to also go for = a > version of your approach here, i.e. that we still have some reference t= o > "they" over "he" and "she". I've got no problem with that, but he also > said (comments in [] are mine): > =20 > If we were to go that route [(of copying Junio's version from [3])]= , > I think the first two points [(i.e. the first two bullet-points you > incorporated above)] (which I didn't give enough thought to be even > called a "draft") should be replaced with something like what =C3=86= var > wrote in his write-up. FWIW, I am not happy with this version for that reason, either. I wonder if replacing the first two bullet points ("Removing" and "If you need to talk about") above with what was added to the CodingGuidelines by the "succinct matter-of-factly description" in https://lore.kernel.org/git/87a6nz2fda.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com/ would be sufficient. Thanks.