From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS53758 23.128.96.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9831F5AE for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 16:54:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231702AbhGUQOF (ORCPT ); Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:14:05 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com ([173.228.157.52]:58958 "EHLO pb-smtp20.pobox.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229561AbhGUQOE (ORCPT ); Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:14:04 -0400 Received: from pb-smtp20.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925DB14275F; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:54:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=sasl; bh=LqoqABbrrUwBGeHk2j2xCjtXRnojlVjuzyPfCE 21q+k=; b=uhfJgu0VzNZZWMO42R4QkQoHxQRWEqS5QxNFA2G7ZdruSXNRn7K98p 86GCfo0UoXt6sYqFUh+uu2M4LfRJ0jylMZ26CoYABnMBVd+b6cqLlFvqS4jvc4ZT aHT5JqplkZRdo+YajjgzanNa+E3S+ow8fftw0dioooz4XTagVrbKc= Received: from pb-smtp20.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B94014275D; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:54:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) Received: from pobox.com (unknown [34.74.3.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp20.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D510214275B; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:54:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from junio@pobox.com) From: Junio C Hamano To: Jeff King Cc: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason , Taylor Blau , SZEDER =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A1bor?= , git@vger.kernel.org, Derrick Stolee , Andrei Rybak Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 6/6] commit-graph: show usage on "commit-graph [write|verify] garbage" References: <20210720174739.GA2025@szeder.dev> <20210720175530.GA23408@szeder.dev> <87lf60vfyn.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <87im14unfd.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 09:54:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Jeff King's message of "Wed, 21 Jul 2021 04:08:35 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 558CFB92-EA44-11EB-A56D-D5C30F5B5667-77302942!pb-smtp20.pobox.com Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Jeff King writes: >> But I think I've been losing that argument recently, e.g. after [1] >> (which I argued we should put into git-ls-files) even things like git's >> basic idea of the state of the index are exposed in some helpers, but >> not corresponding plumbing. > > Yeah. I wish "ls-files --debug" showed more of the extension data, for > example. Let me second that ;-) With extensions and even more drastic things like sparse index entries, "pretend that the index is a flat list of " is sometimes not useful in debugging (as bugs and design mistakes might lie in the code that makes us pretend). Even with packed objects, we still "pretetend that an object file is a single line ' SP NUL' followed by payload bytes, deflated", as if packed objects do not exist. I do not offhand recall we have a good debugging option in the plumbing, or a dedicated debugging tool, but because the format for packed objects has been stable, we are probably OK. Contrast to that, the index is designed to be more ephemeral and its format is subject to change, so we may in more need for a good debugging option. > Yeah, I'd agree with that. The most valuable helpers to me are the ones > that help us understand what Git is seeing, or what's in a binary file > format. Obscure-case "functional" helpers are less likely to be > generally useful. Yup