git@vger.kernel.org list mirror (unofficial, one of many)
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
To: "brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net>
Cc: Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>,
	Shengfa Lin <shengfa@google.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, nathaniel@google.com,
	rsbecker@nexbridge.com, santiago@nyu.edu
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/1] adding user.hideTimezone for setting UTC timezone
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2020 15:14:08 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <xmqq5z7r7ya7.fsf@gitster.c.googlers.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20201003195325.GL1392312@camp.crustytoothpaste.net> (brian m. carlson's message of "Sat, 3 Oct 2020 19:53:25 +0000")

"brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net> writes:

> I'd like to make one suggestion here, and that's that instead of writing
> "+0000" in this case, we write "-0000".  As far as I'm aware, it should
> be parsed equivalently but it mirrors RFC 5322:
>
>   Though "-0000" also indicates Universal Time, it is used to indicate
>   that the time was generated on a system that may be in a local time
>   zone other than Universal Time and that the date-time contains no
>   information about the local time zone.
>
> This is exactly my case.  As you can tell from my emails, I'm not
> physically located in a UTC timezone, but my system is in UTC and uses
> that for timestamps.

What you had in the header of the message I am responding to was:

    Date:   Sat, 3 Oct 2020 19:53:25 +0000

I cannot tell if somebody in the middle rewrote -0000 to +0000, or
your original already said +0000 in your message.

> I use UTC because I know and work with people from
> around the world and it's more convenient to use an objective standard;
> my real time zone is unimportant.

It cuts both ways, and there is a small downside, though.  As I
assume most people are not actively hacking on Git in the early
morning say 01am-04am in their local timezone, I may delay my
response to a message from a contributor if I notice that the day
for that contributor is already over and my message will not be read
for some time even if I rushed it.  "real time zone is unimportant"
may or may not be true.  A responder in such a case is actively
inconvenienced by the zone information being hidden [*1*].

Having said that.

> That's materially different than
> someone who's located in Reykjavík, where we'd want to write +0000,
> since they are physically located in a UTC-equivalent timezone.

I agree that it would be a good thing to have a way to say "I am not
telling which zone the timestamp is from", that can be used to
differenciate "This timestamp is in UTC because I am in UTC".


[Footnote]

*1* How much the person feel inconvenienced is very subjective, so
    let's not go into "it's just a small inconvenience---my privacy
    is more valuable" kind of discussion.  The value of privacy is
    subjective in the same way and we shouldn't compare subjective
    things to decide which side must bend their way to accomodate
    the other side.


  reply	other threads:[~2020-10-03 22:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-12-05 17:14 [ISSUE] Stop accessing, storing, and sharing the user's time zone Nathaniel Manista
2019-12-05 17:31 ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-05 17:33 ` Randall S. Becker
2019-12-05 17:43   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-05 17:53     ` Santiago Torres Arias
2019-12-05 18:00     ` Randall S. Becker
2020-09-30 23:21 ` [RFC PATCH 0/1] adding user.hideTimezone for setting UTC timezone Shengfa Lin
2020-09-30 23:21   ` [RFC PATCH 1/1] hideTimezone: add a user.hideTimezone config Shengfa Lin
2020-09-30 23:41     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-01  0:17       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-02  6:07         ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-01  0:31       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-01  0:35         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-02  6:41           ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-02  6:46             ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-02  6:37         ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-02  6:02       ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-02  6:15         ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-10-02 22:32           ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-03  4:57             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-09-30 23:55     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-02  6:51       ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-01  0:05     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-01  2:44     ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-10-02 21:17       ` Shengfa Lin
2020-09-30 23:53   ` [RFC PATCH 0/1] adding user.hideTimezone for setting UTC timezone Junio C Hamano
2020-10-01  2:17     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-01  3:43       ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-10-01 15:48         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-08 19:49           ` Junio C Hamano
     [not found]             ` <CAEOYnASgxCE5NjhoSgDwyQyAmdLhw5UyFq_Fu==8q7y6uXGz6w@mail.gmail.com>
2020-10-09 16:48               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-02 21:56         ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-02 22:06           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-03  3:50             ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-03  4:42               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-03 19:53         ` brian m. carlson
2020-10-03 22:14           ` Junio C Hamano [this message]
2020-10-02 21:42       ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-02 21:23     ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-13  5:28 ` [WIP v2 0/2] experiment with commit option record-time-zone Shengfa Lin
2020-10-13  5:28   ` [WIP v2 1/2] Adding a record-time-zone command option for commit Shengfa Lin
2020-10-13 20:03     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-21  5:01       ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-21 18:55         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-22 16:27           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-10-26  4:14             ` Shengfa Lin
2020-10-13  5:28   ` [WIP v2 2/2] Demonstrate failing and passing tests Shengfa Lin

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=xmqq5z7r7ya7.fsf@gitster.c.googlers.com \
    --to=gitster@pobox.com \
    --cc=git@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=jrnieder@gmail.com \
    --cc=nathaniel@google.com \
    --cc=rsbecker@nexbridge.com \
    --cc=sandals@crustytoothpaste.net \
    --cc=santiago@nyu.edu \
    --cc=shengfa@google.com \
    --subject='Re: [RFC PATCH 0/1] adding user.hideTimezone for setting UTC timezone' \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

Code repositories for project(s) associated with this inbox:

	https://80x24.org/mirrors/git.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).