From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS3215 2.6.0.0/16 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from out1.vger.email (out1.vger.email [IPv6:2620:137:e000::1:20]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1511F670 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 13:03:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231416AbiCIND4 (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:03:56 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:58972 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S231236AbiCINDz (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Mar 2022 08:03:55 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1B7934B87 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 05:02:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1646830970; bh=l3kfII0CfI//GjQL0ppAd0Iy0tEJeTxz2VGb6nFMN0k=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=dYl85YOZlI6jCXlw5Nc72xRePGVWl0ma9KYNqy3n2Y13b+DpLgbbTcs0qMxRL2WkR 0jjDByHccHT2GDhKSxRdnKB2uwI6zJyp4chKgVtZSYJdwNsON9HHR34zjNGzMLj4Yo jDOsQuPbGLjxWbefvigdhL2GRZSSQh0bRdiHW32Y= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [172.19.147.135] ([89.1.212.224]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MbivM-1o0S28002I-00dEVo; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 14:02:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 14:02:48 +0100 (CET) From: Johannes Schindelin X-X-Sender: virtualbox@gitforwindows.org To: Junio C Hamano cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=86var_Arnfj=C3=B6r=C3=B0_Bjarmason?= , git@vger.kernel.org, Jacob Keller Subject: Re: win+VS environment has "cut" but not "paste"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <220220.86bkz1d7hm.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> <220222.86tucr6kz5.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> <505afc19-25bd-7ccb-7fb2-26bcc9d47119@gmail.com> <220304.86mti6f4ny.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.1 (DEB 209 2017-03-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8323328-1771250885-1646830970=:357" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:insgxiyeXwRJ3169ly8/nwnKe9Us56NTcVcaR7/sLXV/qdUaFql 0R+Zyvb4msB45v921cM6YZb8XaOVuKzeDd24E+Ax9NA1/AQrWeN9w8KHLyaR7Q1pgwRqqp7 kJXPTUXXqrQFx3mrVvuhxH4GmNEt/S84aiijj8szudcr1lHHpkmmsuDqPWN2hh8bIrSVVC+ Ob3goXorBstvUmzeQrfbQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:f7bi54o0ANo=:wQNgd+haF8Uvyjxr6GpTDw DDMI6BXETYnqRIGf6aYSPMTfpjYxiupN6Ag7TqLZ4TrytKYda7qUQk/rw/Ubbf5426h77gSSY XSZMTW/WUhx48ZDLI5qlIEZN8j7yCveUjjugG3eZx+AVKF6zgK+owAYStAsGBQeQ/n9wuUVJ1 YtD/AKNQGZfSxQaT4/2Ky1hW1+43z7VFPnJ5VGpz/QTgq1S+YHi7SGPKaP7sh8lmoFE43PifD BmfIJee8jKpVA6cgewMSiqkqOZSy0L0iKSQrom/4S9l9rlu5RZU3sJA7Gicmc06qKmq7JFQQ0 S696QaNLi3m0EyFg30wSr3n1S3KdTIWLKTvQtG71LpvKw3YDw4YEj4RBCXhL/JlZJkawWiRyZ iRQkRlFQF1wqOvftLUry6C76BqkrGMjpeJchVKRSgqB/7We4Q7mi7oiOXUcz0xmkE6sPFpZCP H1Uk4SxQEU8Ifb7t3IfDxE+aPlDhC5z/AUkcKEQZv19Q2Ew992B78x0sVae0YR7AnD6Tzl1kO 7Kf7gzZPPjyrgN+XfxpauVZ6+VIQWXtBtkW1LJMie2mduEW8Fuit3Jf6XSl9QhJ6TsRT/Q7BD nWrMjTiDD5NkoJuy3swuGn7OSb64p3YgQqA2sGrVUQ/C3FdIZxcGEHXZHR3A+4LUPz7XcozzR ZUs/ShgyFKHaX2QtAN8LVKGAGNXWNA5Q8hbzpwXD32YHLBaqBiUH+PrR23+IlxiFt6/Jx8pdF env1koIScIpL4dj3z3djRcGMWe9Qcz0Sqh74x2WHT7A7V9ouoiAIeGQNG4o8V4DV0kPIRGHm3 2yuEUme03SpokesHxPy5oD+IniFRUabNxbRSZF4OqDA0Mxfob4xPCutZlvdSKKnns5NzEEnDS VkI+xNsAut2lBrn+ELaDtBIE+r8+Ic/W/UJOvfWvskmejlMiQvMW4XnOLFzabnPNhIMKdVubN Sg5M1dRwf3+dwl68wgPWo1JtmI1ntugkfHv+zrXK2DOKrx2MFae+kH0xdlP5xLm+/sOAAuyUe WY5R9DTAGQAuL8piX1KJpP4bd3cUEn9fcGIMpLONKtElwue/HQFKLV0QrBMQggoGkn738/qiy xkCJ6CaV7z21jg= Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323328-1771250885-1646830970=:357 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Junio, On Mon, 7 Mar 2022, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Johannes Schindelin writes: > > > I said that the current output is only useful to veterans. The output = that > > hides the detailed log, under a separate job that is marked as > > non-failing. > > > > That's still as true as when I said it. :-) > > I think getting rid of the separate "print failures" CI step and > making it more discoverable how to reveal the details of failing > test step is a usability improvement. I'm so glad you're saying that! I was starting to doubt whether my caring about getting rid of that `print failures` step was maybe misguided. > I am not =C3=86var, but I think what was questioned was the improvement > justifies multi dozens of seconds extra waiting time, which is a > usability dis-improvement. I do not have a good answer to that > question. It is definitely worrisome that we have to pay such a price. And if there was a good answer how to improve that (without sacrificing the discoverability of the command trace corresponding to the test failure), I would be more than just eager to hear it. I did consider generating a HTML-formatted report that would then be attached as a build artifact. But that would hide the relevant information even worse than a "print failures" step. Maybe I should just get rid of the grouping? But that _really_ helped me when I investigated the recent "usage string updates" vs "FSMonitor" problem, because the test case boundaries were so much clearer. Plus, as far as I saw, GitHub workflow logs always scroll to the end of the logs of the failing step, which would not help _at all_ here. So I dunno. > I am probably nearing to be a veteran who knows when to brew my tea > in my work cycle, and waiting for an extra minute or two while > browsing CI output is not a problem for me. :-) > But new "non-veteran" users may not share that. That is something a > bit worrying about the new UI. Indeed. My goal, after all, is to improve the experience of contributors, not to make it harder. Still, given that you currently have to click quite a few times until you get to where you need to be, I have my doubts that what this patch series does is actually making things slower, measured in terms of the total time from seeing a failed build to being able to diagnose the cause by inspecting the command trace. Ciao, Dscho --8323328-1771250885-1646830970=:357--