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From: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
To: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
Cc: phillip.wood@dunelm.org.uk,
	"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>,
	"Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget" <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/9] ci: make Git's GitHub workflow output much more helpful
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:18:07 +0100 (CET)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2203011111150.11118@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xmqqee3mwf7k.fsf@gitster.g>

Hi Junio,

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022, Junio C Hamano wrote:

> Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> writes:
>
> > FWIW, CI run on "seen" uses this series.
>
> Another "early impression".  I had to open this one today,
>
>     https://github.com/git/git/runs/5367854000?check_suite_focus=true
>
> which was a jarring experience.  It correctly painted the fourth
> circle "Run ci/run-build-and-tests.sh" in red with X in it, and
> after waiting for a while (which I already said that I do not mind
> at all), showed a bunch of line, and then auto-scrolled down to the
> end of that section.
>
> It _looked_ like that it was now ready for me to interact with it,
> so I started to scroll up to the beginning of that section, but I
> had to stare at blank space for several minutes before lines are
> shown to occupy that space.  During the repainting, unlike the
> initial delay-wait that lets me know that it is not ready by showing
> the spinning circle, there was no indication that it wants me to
> wait until it fills the blank space with lines.  Not very pleasant.
>
> I do not think it is so bad to say that it is less pleasant than
> opening the large "print test failures" section and looking for "not
> ok", which was what the original CI UI we had before this series.
> But at least with the old one, once the UI becomes ready for me to
> interact with, I didn't have to wait for (for the lack of better
> phrase) such UI hiccups.  Responses to looking for the next instance
> of "not ok" was predictable.

Let me again state my goal clearly, because some readers seem to be
confused and believe that I want to improve the developer experience of
veterans of the Git mailing list who are more than capable of finding
their way through the build failures.

My goal is instead to make new contributors' lives easier.

It is a pretty high bar we set, expecting a new contributor faced with a
build failure to figure out how to fix the breakage. It's as if we
_wanted_ to instill impostors' syndrome in them, which is probably not
intentional.

In that respect, a relatively responsive page that utterly fails to direct
the reader to the culprit is far, far worse than a slightly bumpy page
that _does_ lead the reader in the right direction.

In any case, thank you for integrating the patches into `seen` so that the
impact of the patches can be "seen".

Ciao,
Dscho

  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-03-01 10:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 98+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-24 18:56 [PATCH 0/9] ci: make Git's GitHub workflow output much more helpful Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 1/9] ci: fix code style Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 2/9] ci/run-build-and-tests: take a more high-level view Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-24 23:22   ` Eric Sunshine
2022-01-25 14:34     ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 3/9] ci: make it easier to find failed tests' logs in the GitHub workflow Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-25 23:48   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 4/9] ci/run-build-and-tests: add some structure to the GitHub workflow output Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-02-23 12:13   ` Phillip Wood
2022-02-25 13:40     ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 5/9] tests: refactor --write-junit-xml code Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-26  0:10   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 6/9] test(junit): avoid line feeds in XML attributes Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 7/9] ci: optionally mark up output in the GitHub workflow Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 8/9] ci: use `--github-workflow-markup` " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-24 18:56 ` [PATCH 9/9] ci: call `finalize_test_case_output` a little later Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-01-26  0:25 ` [PATCH 0/9] ci: make Git's GitHub workflow output much more helpful Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-01-27 16:31 ` CI "grouping" within jobs v.s. lighter split-out jobs (was: [PATCH 0/9] ci: make Git's GitHub workflow output much more helpful) Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-02-19 23:46 ` [PATCH 0/9] ci: make Git's GitHub workflow output much more helpful Johannes Schindelin
2022-02-20  2:44   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-02-20 15:25     ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-02-21  8:09       ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-02-22 10:26         ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-02-20 12:47   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-02-22 10:30     ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-02-22 13:31       ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-02-23 12:07         ` Phillip Wood
2022-02-25 12:39           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-02-25 14:10           ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-02-25 18:16             ` Junio C Hamano
2022-02-26 18:43               ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-01  2:59                 ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-01  6:35                   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-01 10:18                   ` Johannes Schindelin [this message]
2022-03-01 16:52                     ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-01 10:10                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-01 16:57                   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-01 10:20               ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-04  7:38               ` win+VS environment has "cut" but not "paste"? Junio C Hamano
2022-03-04  9:04                 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-07 15:51                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-07 17:05                     ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-09 13:02                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-10 15:23                         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-07 15:48                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-07 16:58                   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-02 10:58             ` [PATCH 0/9] ci: make Git's GitHub workflow output much more helpful Phillip Wood
2022-03-07 16:07               ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-07 17:11                 ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-09 11:44                   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-07 17:12                 ` Phillip Wood
2022-03-01 10:24 ` [PATCH v2 " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 1/9] ci: fix code style Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 2/9] ci/run-build-and-tests: take a more high-level view Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 3/9] ci: make it easier to find failed tests' logs in the GitHub workflow Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 4/9] ci/run-build-and-tests: add some structure to the GitHub workflow output Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 5/9] tests: refactor --write-junit-xml code Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 6/9] test(junit): avoid line feeds in XML attributes Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 7/9] ci: optionally mark up output in the GitHub workflow Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 8/9] ci: use `--github-workflow-markup` " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 9/9] ci: call `finalize_test_case_output` a little later Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-03-01 19:07   ` [PATCH v2 0/9] ci: make Git's GitHub workflow output much more helpful Junio C Hamano
2022-03-02 12:22   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-07 15:57     ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-07 16:05       ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-07 17:36         ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-09 10:56           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-09 13:20         ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-03-09 19:39           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-09 19:47           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-25  0:48   ` Victoria Dye
2022-03-25  9:02     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-25 18:38       ` Victoria Dye
2022-05-21 21:42     ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-05-21 23:05       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-22 18:48         ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-05-22 19:10           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-23 12:58             ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-05-22 23:27         ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-23 18:55           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-23 19:21             ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-05-23  9:05         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-23 18:41           ` Johannes Schindelin
2022-05-24  8:40             ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-21 22:18   ` [PATCH v3 00/12] " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 01/12] ci: fix code style Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 02/12] tests: refactor --write-junit-xml code Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 03/12] test(junit): avoid line feeds in XML attributes Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 04/12] ci/run-build-and-tests: take a more high-level view Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 05/12] ci: make it easier to find failed tests' logs in the GitHub workflow Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 06/12] ci/run-build-and-tests: add some structure to the GitHub workflow output Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 07/12] ci: optionally mark up output in the GitHub workflow Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 08/12] ci(github): skip the logs of the successful test cases Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-24 10:47       ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 09/12] ci(github): avoid printing test case preamble twice Victoria Dye via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 10/12] ci: use `--github-workflow-markup` in the GitHub workflow Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 11/12] ci(github): mention where the full logs can be found Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2022-05-21 22:18     ` [PATCH v3 12/12] ci: call `finalize_test_case_output` a little later Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget

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