From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MALFORMED_FREEMAIL, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6609F1F4B4 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:25:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726457AbhAJMXQ (ORCPT ); Sun, 10 Jan 2021 07:23:16 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:45691 "EHLO mout.gmx.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726394AbhAJMXQ (ORCPT ); Sun, 10 Jan 2021 07:23:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1610281300; bh=0ubWnYHmaUvoBweNPumPZpV0TB1TFiRrBytQe5/u80k=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=V93dcKpKJ9J7jKUGmodDf0O9VIPVsvrxroeaGqMz2M6rvThSbjMLxOuJqgsdcVCZt 5OjCOCF9jG0nFrZadRzGOFVK1bi0lXpwoESzWMTTOW0pOImEPyZldqfx+N0LZfbq+g SfcLub0IDIQ9znFE/dNMibHtFg7bIhAUf5xfk2iw= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [172.18.250.66] ([213.196.212.28]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MdefD-1kPVxK3TXd-00ZcKc; Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:21:39 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:21:38 +0100 (CET) From: Johannes Schindelin X-X-Sender: virtualbox@gitforwindows.org To: Taylor Blau cc: Junio C Hamano , =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=86var_Arnfj=C3=B6r=C3=B0_Bjarmason?= , Nika Layzell via GitGitGadget , git@vger.kernel.org, Nika Layzell Subject: Re: Cc'ing the Git maintainer on GitGitGadget contributions, was Re: [PATCH 0/1] add--interactive: skip index refresh in reset patch mode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <87wnwordzh.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.1 (DEB 209 2017-03-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:B8nIobjjob4+mJTsuGhkZnfOXPBGcI8LzDgvALHoB+onXyZQHba VedoL8lfVZV9w3/G/213YHxOSAPLezWIV7QaGuT85EsQ+TMFM27bAgHXkCsmcgHB4pSRZwD g4C/Y0YxVZ930RLMT5XqYXs4DG9LtxKLOR+SPqmg3gz1Ruz27KG8bGia6FqCOjZqPBxC+1+ pgIy+7blyXMMd95bJamxA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:vunPn26ZufM=:dj4Cl1eLC8vubbDEyJFlnB BGK+dLcvuaJHZK6xdmYazUkndbHo9iKG7FJFbxOCDgyCM6HpAcjP0aZBtVyaEWKwCRmD8c8Ys 8c/WZIfkkLT9CbDV0sStLXiMwBZWAOFUy7KB8tJ9fZgHicgjZw5Pw+p3HqN0ctmkNcS7KVOYO VHgd5lAXcazvDx2qQoz8aVjnrv956TGuP3iwn64S6JDZghrrcXdxO8Ts31t1LeqLfVxl3eOzh B4F02GDiQPjzzrgTYz71oy3nSt+YLsVhUxC/aWXJE25+1sidVuXoIvGB6j0egJ3og8eXqCKY8 IuLLDffWktRG4mTUYU8RW2MLkY1tZA/f8eAPOc7FLqnDr7Z8VcTGp1fWyrIe4JZgKFM3Vb2Wq MybzRIpNUAq3NcfBOLyI2kLOoD/WSf5/Fji7ttxRv1aGDYaPMDrnlLUyJEni7jpT+8tlZ+nrh tvm8PWFxXBlJDdEC71AzTmrneBlTznGLE6jxul3bOfoEHslfUJ/AvrfqGgCqitamv85Agg7ZD 1uRbOlpEMM7d1bwkG43fZONiqzJw4cFXXohzs7o5pQ6eBCeli+At7+u0TwwUPzuhs1H3plLwO 0ZcbndW3UnYTm4Z8UQ+K6cFvgd9Rv2ueGq6FqhjAlbRW4DpLtQXLVFsegUEebadkFYM61q4n7 opXthBSiIF8+n5qbFEdt0kPbg6wZXm+p8DFiIdhR6w3mCO+EnL3EhNoPp5acR9YRxSGomeKAM 1csM0LUvx3dCfEu+Lnm6TMXG4fAk40YSD8ou42j1LCEQYS0vS0SPYi2j6g+cZ3Q3RbncPE+Kf cwngo7q6I8c36TZ23IZuxARl9gXWroexK87ZPEau/NI+szTOYIjzGO5gctPAdrVVkYMv2Sl0i 0qTAqlfwM6SZRWlJFh3sbbJdaiuFxUzSZiiXrt0jY= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Hi Taylor, On Fri, 8 Jan 2021, Taylor Blau wrote: > On Fri, Jan 08, 2021 at 03:56:20PM +0100, Johannes Schindelin wrote: > > > > On Thu, 7 Jan 2021, Junio C Hamano wrote: > > > > > We may not be able to automate the thinking part to decide when > > > submitter may want to get help, but an automation can help by giving > > > the submitter cues and clues when to ask for help and from whom. > > > > I fear that we're striking the balance on the side of expecting too mu= ch > > knowledge about project-specific lore from contributors. > > I think that this could be reasonably addressed. When someone opens a PR > (but before the hit /submit), GGG could say: > > Your change touches these files, and so suggested reviewers include > X, Y, Z. When you believe your submission is in its last round, > please also include the maintainer, M. That is an option. Is it the best option to reach the goal where competent software engineers can focus on improving Git's source code? Maybe it is not possible do automate what I wish for. > > We already have a ticket suggesting to add reviewers: > > https://github.com/gitgitgadget/gitgitgadget/issues/219 > > > > With this suggestion, too, we could go and extend that wall of text ev= en > > further and expect contributors to just know what they are supposed to= do. > > But I don't see how that would make this process more inviting to new > > contributors. > > Yeah, I agree that adding this as a separate step does not make sense, > since it's hard to discover such things (especially by individuals who > merely want to send a single contribution to the project). Having this > happen automatically upon creating a PR would make more sense to me. Right. I always have this contribution in mind: Improve the readability of `log =2D-graph` output (https://github.com/gitgitgadget/git/pull/383) This was an excellent contribution. I doubt that we would have received it without GitGitGadget, as the contributor could really focus on the code change instead of the contribution logistics. We did not exactly make it easy, and I fear that we are losing a lot of potential contributions because of that. For example, Git is often ridiculed for being hard to use, and I can understand. There has been research into ways to improve that, but little of that research resulted in contributions on the Git mailing list. I would not at all be surprised if that was because of the review process we put up. Usability is only one area where I think we would benefit from attracting talent. Accessibility is another one. Or UI improvements (consistency, self-explanatory navigation, etc). Or... Ciao, Dscho