From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MALFORMED_FREEMAIL, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE shortcircuit=no autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016C41F619 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 11:42:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726420AbgCJLm2 (ORCPT ); Tue, 10 Mar 2020 07:42:28 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:46215 "EHLO mout.gmx.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726205AbgCJLm1 (ORCPT ); Tue, 10 Mar 2020 07:42:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1583840539; bh=Sb1JDA9HAtEkZFqKTeY0yerRjYfqRabX+/DH6UEZ4W0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=aZ/mQewvSMuN06bKGoWNvjG1C5DoywkheMHoJBO9nxm90Xn1dMVuMZWBmUIzSrTNa g65pfFZIOTrpgDq4xIPGYnDzjlZjm3BUO2LTSh4oIShDykqfIuPQtZUzDWrb/gIrG9 Y3gpXgjPnP3/z+AAzYMtylaDx7D2IyjtLoHIDIcg= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from MININT-QA14EDB.fritz.box ([89.1.212.209]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M26r3-1jDY153LS5-002UKj; Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:42:18 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:42:03 +0100 (CET) From: Johannes Schindelin X-X-Sender: virtualbox@gitforwindows.org To: Junio C Hamano cc: Jeff Hostetler , Emily Shaffer , git@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 2/5] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20200302230400.107428-1-emilyshaffer@google.com> <20200302230400.107428-3-emilyshaffer@google.com> <5aae34d7-ed76-0e71-d0c4-959deeb1b2ca@jeffhostetler.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.1 (DEB 209 2017-03-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VDx+y+Ezx8vq+C0ahpa9Zb1UX52/xfz/G5ppP4pScUhrW9A7Mz2 0gWX8LsIaLwAvdGigFVzD3Ecd8bMVa8gtRnjC4e65dLZjrd46saESkv6CgUOQbm9z9K4B8B slmEt/v+7e/5Ea63pGxBLqTq/g+8hIg8Huv7UhuPAhCCH7IIEUNsrt4dAfTXuFki8TYOssn TkQI1pAV+G6nhlpMFvgVQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:UpS7Vg8U1iY=:coBBRT6YIVLP5iFOzKapm3 lXkdJTRQ6GqLIMB3qhrEg5QFHaStAfY/gYcQqTVxrA31E0wdp53GtZt7RFA60QrimOPMnZNDG OjoZUwadDfDfGVXGPQmCWynLJ0te5TKsTQewP4YsEq/M+CxOhgpNVX0xwctayPZespUPP6YyZ 2Zih6s8oZbOXefsl7a4Ki8pnQCMI60NzpboTYV0oX/AXesLf+OBCH8m0oVg5OBwsYb318BlMq SoT64JQqg6o0wvQwN+NWTlKX9gqxVpfrLrdpGtQgBSP9jIXlwhjpvf3iY6PnueTP5DSVK2i8z l/3zaab0s4dBBCIusq5EieYivYZ/Dr4Nh9npZZrFL2HsNtXP/wgwiwxT1kGUfgx/xd8gGTQlg mYmpd0JcW671ZhsaFTXMKBp5oT/0qib+qsaSGhEO1MOem0W8oeBwxYqmeceFnA+tOnF6y/kKz Mi+IG7pP+NpBrIs8XR1MH4XwnIiO1/vF8JDv699YLJlgn6lP/jpoCxI+FZhGYb3gYRNG5HJYj z/nmIhD4PErBIDtWPeRZCamqXgz/qpZHTfLHlWo1SqVXvEvqcosS/ZfCYksB7tr3YXdH/MRWN 2Rh2Ida7W7ehQWz7D9o8aLLpYV8LDn3MbTLJpaigdByhlwGi5PJjUzorNDQmCD6jrD9HdfuX4 m51Lg0kqmJ9sBAItNcljuKKHmJ98ZE+iBbkTLVRa7TZLCrai6SFanjWMNQO/S991ydNHrE32k 8mgNZFFpcMRM1Xb4oVLer3jo7n+sFhymXgH+0s18V4Vkf2rPyKUOx2Pen7o0zuoUOFCvptVCd Xqu3CFc2ZATs4dcAiLl3qhIVw/s4qBmGg1dLxGPaZTKzUDmRYxYEFDyWLhhoqe3dCKOgqATmy HMClurkz3R2iL8xSB3ferquu1CjU8DCjl6pM8tW68B8SZYMcxfT8nnOVCMCwJRoR8uUds+My/ CNPWtYDL4e0PrPqdySa3eE0i1js2aXzhGC2j108UEALqorZaPiSq1uZBoFinW6+5JJu9ooMS8 utNI0x+ZeMrAkiU051+YqGY/fK6eJatW0weDOgLKNFaaZZIB1Ved61ovwW/QMeQu65fu7qmWB 4Wnu5zEYNoid77edSr+sl5K+auR3AFQAvHSTMoluyJ2nw5Ss+DRk2qJrunXRZg0yQBmATDVgG O6v2c7US0WqAITyHDKmG+vDzbDPHLbOn4cG6LEzDyfgTMu353aINiibOulbGJzEC+G4hhrZF6 RnZpZL7CIv21u18Ky Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Hi Junio, On Mon, 9 Mar 2020, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Johannes Schindelin writes: > > > On the other hand, if we make `git-bugreport` a built-in, I cannot see= any > > downsides. > > > > For me, therefore, having it as a built-in is a clear win. What am I > > missing? > > The right sense of relative importance between efficiently running > the rest of Git by not bloting the main binary and making sure not > to ship Git that does not run unless "git bugreport" runs (which > makes sure that "bugreport" runs) is what you are missing, I > suspect. By that reasoning, `git bugreport` should not be included in core Git. > Another thing is that you are giving "git bugreport" too much weight > and too little credit to inexperienced users, by assuming that we > will never hear from them when "bugreport" is incapable to run for > them. They will report, with or without "git bugreport", and the > more important thing you seem to be missing is that after the > initial contact it would become an interactive process---there is > no reason to prioritize to ensure that the initial contact has > everything that is needed to diagnose any issue without further > interaction. "With my build, even 'bugreport' dumps core." is > perfectly good place to start. > > Besides, wouldn't the ones on platforms, on which "git bugreport" > may have trouble running, i.e. the ones on minority and exotic > platforms, tend to be self sufficient and capable (both diagnosing > the issue for themselves, and reaching out to us as appropriate) > ones in practice (e.g. I have NonStop folks in mind)? Yes, I can agree that inexperienced users will not give up and keep up the conversation until they see their problems fixed. I can also agree that inexperienced users will report bugs even if it is not made super easy for them to do so. I can agree to that _iff_ I ignore my entire experience maintaining Git for Windows, that is. Sarcasm aside, I think that you underestimate the importance of a good bug reporting tool like `git bugreport`, and I suspect that Emily does not. Ciao, Dscho