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From: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
To: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
Cc: Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, Jeff Hostetler <git@jeffhostetler.com>,
	Jeff King <peff@peff.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 1/9] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive`
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 13:30:05 +0100 (CET)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.1911131326300.46@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xmqqd0dwbfd6.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com>

Hi Junio,

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019, Junio C Hamano wrote:

> Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> writes:
>
> >> Regardless of the language the scripted version was written in, I
> >> think the '--helper' approach is always the poorer choice between
> >> the two [*1*].  It limits the modular decomposition to what suits the
> >> original language, the impedance mismatch between the original and
> >> target language forces us to unnatural style of inter module
> >> communication, and the unnatural interface layer, which we know has
> >> to be discarded at the end, must be written [*2*].
> >>
> >> So, I'd prefer to see "because this is a better way in the longer
> >> term" over "because the --helper approach would not work".
> >
> > Hmm. I feel distinctly unheard.
>
> The feeling is mutual ;-)

Maybe I could take your comments more seriously if you acknowledged the
fact that I am _very_ familiar with the vagaries of converting scripts
to C. Like, very, very, very familiar.

> > It may appear compelling, conceptually, to shun the `--helper` approach,
> > but the more important reality is that it is the only one that makes an
> > incremental conversion possible at all.
> >
> > It took an entire month of 60-hour weeks to complete the conversion of
> > `git add -i`/`git add -p` to C, and only at the very end was I able to
> > run the test suite with `GIT_TEST_ADD_I_USE_BUILTIN=true` and see it
> > pass.
>
> Yeah, that is developer comfort, and of course it is nice to have
> than not to have it.

Comfort has little to do with it. Driving out bugs has a lot more to do
with it. Which is the point I am trying to get across the entire time.

> But compared to the downside impact to the quality of end result
> that is inherent to the '--helper' approach, I'd prioritize the
> quality of the end result over developer comfort.
>
> > It is indeed _in spite of_ the success of the `--helper` approach that
> > we cannot use it here.
>
> As I do not see those past '--helper' ones necessarily successes, we
> must agree to disagree here.

Right. But if I recall, you never even saw the need for the conversions
in the first place. Maybe you still don't?

> In any case, the log message needs to express why _you_ ended up
> taking the non-helper approach.  Even though it is far less
> relevant, compared to that, what other approach you instead wanted
> to take, I do not veto you from having your own opinion.

Okay. I will take that as an indication that I can go forward with the
latest proposal. After all, I described pretty well, I think, why _I_
ended up taking the non-helper approach.

Thanks,
Dscho

> >> [Footnote]
> >>
> >> *1* In only one case I would recommend using "--helper" approach,
> >>     though.  When you are not expecting the developer to be able to
> >>     come up with a better split of the program into modules than how
> >>     the scripted version is, and you want to ensure that the
> >>     developer have something to show when they faild to complete the
> >>     project after N weeks.  You are a more experienced developer
> >>     than an average GSoC student, and there is no pencils-down time,
> >>     so the exception would not apply.
> >>
> >> *2* In "git submodule" for example it was quite natural for the
> >>     module that gives a list of submodules with its traits the
> >>     program cares about to be written as a shell function that
> >>     writes the data to its standard output.  And consuming modules
> >>     sit at the downstream of a pipe, accepting its output.  When you
> >>     are writing these modules both in C, you wouldn't connect them
> >>     with pipe to carry the list of submodules, but a piecemeal
> >>     conversion using the "--helper" approach meant that there always
> >>     remained _some_ consumer that wants to read from the pipe, so
> >>     long after the module lister was rewritten in C, it still needed
> >>     to support a mode where it sends its output to the pipe, instead
> >>     of just passing an array of structures.
> >>
>

  reply	other threads:[~2019-11-13 12:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-04-10 17:37 [PATCH 00/11] git add -i: add a rudimentary version in C (supporting only status and help so far) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 01/11] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-04-18 14:31   ` Jeff Hostetler
2019-04-18 16:06     ` Jeff King
2019-04-30 23:40       ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-05-01  2:21         ` Jeff King
2019-05-13 11:14           ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 02/11] diff: export diffstat interface Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 03/11] built-in add -i: implement the `status` command Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 04/11] built-in add -i: refresh the index before running `status` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 05/11] built-in add -i: color the header in the `status` command Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 06/11] built-in add -i: implement the main loop Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-04-18 16:49   ` Jeff Hostetler
2019-05-13 12:04     ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 07/11] Add a function to determine unique prefixes for a list of strings Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-04-18 17:57   ` Jeff Hostetler
2019-05-13 12:48     ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 08/11] built-in add -i: show unique prefixes of the commands Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 09/11] built-in add -i: support `?` (prompt help) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 10/11] built-in add -i: use color in the main loop Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-04-10 17:37 ` [PATCH 11/11] built-in add -i: implement the `help` command Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27 ` [PATCH v2 00/11] git add -i: add a rudimentary version in C (supporting only status and help so far) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 01/11] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 02/11] diff: export diffstat interface Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 03/11] built-in add -i: implement the `status` command Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 04/11] built-in add -i: refresh the index before running `status` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 05/11] built-in add -i: color the header in the `status` command Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 06/11] built-in add -i: implement the main loop Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 07/11] Add a function to determine unique prefixes for a list of strings Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:27   ` [PATCH v2 08/11] built-in add -i: show unique prefixes of the commands Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:28   ` [PATCH v2 09/11] built-in add -i: support `?` (prompt help) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:28   ` [PATCH v2 10/11] built-in add -i: use color in the main loop Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-05-13 17:28   ` [PATCH v2 11/11] built-in add -i: implement the `help` command Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-07-16 14:58   ` [PATCH v3 00/11] git add -i: add a rudimentary version in C (supporting only status and help so far) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 01/11] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-07-31 17:52       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-08-26 21:26         ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-08-27 22:25           ` Junio C Hamano
2019-08-28 15:06             ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-08-28 15:37               ` Junio C Hamano
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 03/11] built-in add -i: implement the `status` command Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-07-31 18:12       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-08-27 10:04         ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 02/11] diff: export diffstat interface Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-07-31 17:59       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-08-27  9:22         ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 04/11] built-in add -i: refresh the index before running `status` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 05/11] built-in add -i: color the header in the `status` command Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 06/11] built-in add -i: implement the main loop Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-07-31 18:14       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 07/11] Add a function to determine unique prefixes for a list of strings Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-07-31 18:39       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-08-24 12:38       ` SZEDER Gábor
2019-08-27 12:14         ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-08-28 16:30           ` SZEDER Gábor
2019-08-28 16:34             ` [PATCH] [PoC] A simpler find_unique_prefixes() implementation SZEDER Gábor
2019-08-30 20:12               ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 08/11] built-in add -i: show unique prefixes of the commands Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 09/11] built-in add -i: support `?` (prompt help) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 10/11] built-in add -i: use color in the main loop Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-07-16 14:58     ` [PATCH v3 11/11] built-in add -i: implement the `help` command Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-08-02 21:04       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-08-02 22:26         ` Jeff King
2019-07-16 18:38     ` [PATCH v3 00/11] git add -i: add a rudimentary version in C (supporting only status and help so far) Johannes Schindelin
2019-08-02 21:06       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-08-27 12:57     ` [PATCH v4 " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 01/11] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 02/11] diff: export diffstat interface Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 04/11] built-in add -i: refresh the index before running `status` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 03/11] built-in add -i: implement the `status` command Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 05/11] built-in add -i: color the header in " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 07/11] Add a function to determine unique prefixes for a list of strings Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 06/11] built-in add -i: implement the main loop Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:57       ` [PATCH v4 08/11] built-in add -i: show unique prefixes of the commands Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:58       ` [PATCH v4 09/11] built-in add -i: support `?` (prompt help) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:58       ` [PATCH v4 10/11] built-in add -i: use color in the main loop Slavica Djukic via GitGitGadget
2019-08-27 12:58       ` [PATCH v4 11/11] built-in add -i: implement the `help` command Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-04 12:15       ` [PATCH v5 0/9] git add -i: add a rudimentary version in C (supporting only status and help so far) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 1/9] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-08  4:49           ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-09 11:06             ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-10  7:18               ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-11  9:15                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-11 12:09                   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-12 15:03                     ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-13  3:54                       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-13 12:30                         ` Johannes Schindelin [this message]
2019-11-13 14:01                           ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 2/9] diff: export diffstat interface Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-11-08  4:56           ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 3/9] built-in add -i: implement the `status` command Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-11-08  5:01           ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 4/9] built-in add -i: color the header in " Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 5/9] built-in add -i: implement the main loop Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-08  5:17           ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-09 11:21             ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 6/9] built-in add -i: show unique prefixes of the commands Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 7/9] built-in add -i: support `?` (prompt help) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 8/9] built-in add -i: use color in the main loop Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-04 12:15         ` [PATCH v5 9/9] built-in add -i: implement the `help` command Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:40         ` [PATCH v6 0/9] git add -i: add a rudimentary version in C (supporting only status and help so far) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:40           ` [PATCH v6 1/9] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-14  2:15             ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-14 15:07               ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-15  4:35                 ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-13 12:40           ` [PATCH v6 2/9] diff: export diffstat interface Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:40           ` [PATCH v6 3/9] built-in add -i: implement the `status` command Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:41           ` [PATCH v6 4/9] built-in add -i: color the header in " Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:41           ` [PATCH v6 5/9] built-in add -i: implement the main loop Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:41           ` [PATCH v6 6/9] built-in add -i: show unique prefixes of the commands Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:41           ` [PATCH v6 7/9] built-in add -i: support `?` (prompt help) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:41           ` [PATCH v6 8/9] built-in add -i: use color in the main loop Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:41           ` [PATCH v6 9/9] built-in add -i: implement the `help` command Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-13 12:46           ` [PATCH v6 0/9] git add -i: add a rudimentary version in C (supporting only status and help so far) Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-15 11:11           ` [PATCH v7 " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 1/9] Start to implement a built-in version of `git add --interactive` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 2/9] diff: export diffstat interface Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 3/9] built-in add -i: implement the `status` command Daniel Ferreira via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 4/9] built-in add -i: color the header in " Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 5/9] built-in add -i: implement the main loop Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 6/9] built-in add -i: show unique prefixes of the commands Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 7/9] built-in add -i: support `?` (prompt help) Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 8/9] built-in add -i: use color in the main loop Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget
2019-11-15 11:11             ` [PATCH v7 9/9] built-in add -i: implement the `help` command Slavica Đukić via GitGitGadget

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