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From: Glen Choo <chooglen@google.com>
To: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
Cc: Glen Choo via GitGitGadget <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, Taylor Blau <me@ttaylorr.com>,
	"brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net>,
	Derrick Stolee <derrickstolee@github.com>,
	Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com>,
	rsbecker@nexbridge.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/2] setup.c: make bare repo discovery optional
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 13:27:00 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <kl6lv8u5i5pn.fsf@chooglen-macbookpro.roam.corp.google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xmqqk0al1e50.fsf@gitster.g>

Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> writes:

> Glen Choo <chooglen@google.com> writes:
>
>> Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> writes:
>>
>>> "Glen Choo via GitGitGadget" <gitgitgadget@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>  * die()-ing is necessary if we're trying to flip the default value of
>>>>    discovery.bare. We'd expect many bare repo users to be broken, and it's
>>>>    more helpful to fail loudly than to silently ignore the bare repo.
>>>>
>>>>    But in the long term, long after we've flipped the default and users know
>>>>    that they need to opt into bare repo discovery, would it be a better UX
>>>>    to just silently ignore the bare repo?
>>>
>>> Would a middle-ground of giving a warning() message help?  Can it be
>>> loud and annoying enough to knudge the users to adjust without
>>> breaking the functionality?
>>
>> Personally, when my tool changes its behavior, I would strongly prefer
>> it to die than to "change behavior + warn". I'd feel more comfortable
>> knowing that the tool did nothing as opposed to doing the wrong thing
>> and only being informed after the fact. Also, I sometimes ignore
>> warnings ;)
>
> Heh, personally I would try very hard not to change the behaviour
> without explicitly asked by the users with configuration or command
> line option.  Flipping the default has traditionally been done in
> two or three phases.
>
>  (1) We start by giving a loud and annoying warning to those who
>      haven't configured and tell them the default *will* change, how
>      to keep the current behaviour forever, and how to live in the
>      future by adopting the future default early.
>
>  (2) After a while, we flip the default.  Those who haven't
>      configured are given a notice that the default has changed, how
>      to keep the old behaviour forever, and how to explicitly choose
>      the same value as the default to squelch the notice.
>
>  (3) After yet another while, we stop giving the notice.  If we
>      omitted (2), here is where we flip the default.
>
> Strictly speaking, we can have (1) in one release and then could
> directly jump to (3), but some distros may skip the releases that
> has (1), and (2) is an attempt to help users of such distros.

Ah, that is very helpful. Thanks. It's pretty clear that I misunderstood
what you meant by "giving a warning() message" - the warning() is there
to prepare users in advance of the change; we don't actually want the
warning() in the long term.

For something as disruptive as discovering bare repos, having all of
(1), (2) and (3) sounds appropriate.

>>> Hopefully "git fetch" over ssh:// and file:/// would run the other
>>> side with GIT_DIR explicitly set?
>>
>> Ah, I'll check this and get back to you.
>>
>>>                                                        I do not yet
>>> find these "problems, such as..." so convincing.
>>
>> What would be a convincing rationale to you? I'll capture that here.
>
> That is a wrong question.  You are the one pushing for castrating
> the bare repositories.

Let me clarify in case this wasn't received the way I intended. Earlier
in the thread, you mentioned:

  The longer-term default should be "cwd is allowed, but we do not
  bother going up from object/04 subdirectory of a bare repository",
  [...]

which I took to mean "Junio thinks that, by default, Git should stop
walking up to find a bare repo, and thinks this is better because of
rationale X.", and not, "Junio does not think that the default needs to
change, but is just suggesting a better default than Glen's".

If it is the former, then there is obviously some thought process here
that is worth sharing.

If it the latter, then I'm in favor of taking Stolee's suggestion to
drop "cwd", since nobody else finds it useful enough. (I like the
'simplification' story, but not enough to push "cwd" through, especially
since it does quite little security-wise.)

>> I'm assuming that you already have such an rationale in mind when you
>> say that the longer-term default is that "we respect bare repositories
>> only if they are the cwd.". I'm also assuming that this rationale is
>> something other than embedded bare repos, because "cwd-only" does not
>> protect against that.
>
> No, I do not have such a "different" rationale to justify the change
> proposed in this patch.  I was saying that the claim "embedded bare
> repos are risky", backed by your two examples, did not sound all
> that serious a problem.  Presented with a more serious brekage
> scenario, it may make the description more convincing.

Fair. I'll mull over this.

  reply	other threads:[~2022-05-16 20:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 113+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-05-06 18:30 [PATCH] [RFC] " Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-06 20:33 ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-09 21:42 ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-09 22:54   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-09 23:57     ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-10  0:23       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-10 22:00   ` Glen Choo
2022-05-13 23:37 ` [PATCH v2 0/2] " Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-13 23:37   ` [PATCH v2 1/2] " Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-16 18:12     ` Glen Choo
2022-05-16 18:46     ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-16 22:25       ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-17 20:24       ` Glen Choo
2022-05-17 21:51         ` Glen Choo
2022-05-13 23:37   ` [PATCH v2 2/2] setup.c: learn discovery.bareRepository=cwd Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-16 18:49     ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-16 16:40   ` [PATCH v2 0/2] setup.c: make bare repo discovery optional Junio C Hamano
2022-05-16 18:36     ` Glen Choo
2022-05-16 19:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-16 20:27         ` Glen Choo [this message]
2022-05-16 22:16           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-16 16:43   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-16 19:07   ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-16 22:43     ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-16 23:19     ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-17 18:56     ` Glen Choo
2022-05-27 21:09   ` [PATCH v3 0/5] config: introduce discovery.bare and protected config Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-27 21:09     ` [PATCH v3 1/5] Documentation: define protected configuration Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-27 23:29       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-06-02 12:42         ` Derrick Stolee
2022-06-02 16:53           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-06-02 17:39             ` Glen Choo
2022-06-03 15:57         ` Glen Choo
2022-05-27 21:09     ` [PATCH v3 2/5] config: read protected config with `git_protected_config()` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-28  0:28       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-31 17:43         ` Glen Choo
2022-06-01 15:58           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-06-02 12:56       ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-27 21:09     ` [PATCH v3 3/5] setup.c: create `discovery.bare` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-05-28  0:59       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-06-02 13:11       ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-27 21:09     ` [PATCH v3 4/5] config: include "-c" in protected config Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-02 13:15       ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-27 21:09     ` [PATCH v3 5/5] upload-pack: make uploadpack.packObjectsHook protected Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-02 13:18       ` Derrick Stolee
2022-06-07 20:57     ` [PATCH v4 0/5] config: introduce discovery.bare and protected config Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-07 20:57       ` [PATCH v4 1/5] Documentation/git-config.txt: add SCOPES section Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-07 20:57       ` [PATCH v4 2/5] Documentation: define protected configuration Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-22 21:58         ` Jonathan Tan
2022-06-23 18:21           ` Glen Choo
2022-06-07 20:57       ` [PATCH v4 3/5] config: read protected config with `git_protected_config()` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-07 22:49         ` Junio C Hamano
2022-06-08  0:22           ` Glen Choo
2022-06-07 20:57       ` [PATCH v4 4/5] safe.directory: use git_protected_config() Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-07 20:57       ` [PATCH v4 5/5] setup.c: create `discovery.bare` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-07 21:37         ` Glen Choo
2022-06-22 22:03       ` [PATCH v4 0/5] config: introduce discovery.bare and protected config Jonathan Tan
2022-06-23 17:13         ` Glen Choo
2022-06-23 18:32           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-06-27 17:34             ` Glen Choo
2022-06-27 18:19       ` Glen Choo
2022-06-27 18:36       ` [PATCH v5 " Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-27 18:36         ` [PATCH v5 1/5] Documentation/git-config.txt: add SCOPES section Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-27 18:36         ` [PATCH v5 2/5] Documentation: define protected configuration Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-27 18:36         ` [PATCH v5 3/5] config: learn `git_protected_config()` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-27 18:36         ` [PATCH v5 4/5] safe.directory: use git_protected_config() Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-27 18:36         ` [PATCH v5 5/5] setup.c: create `discovery.bare` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-30 13:20           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-06-30 17:28             ` Glen Choo
2022-06-30 18:13         ` [PATCH v6 0/5] config: introduce discovery.bare and protected config Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-30 18:13           ` [PATCH v6 1/5] Documentation/git-config.txt: add SCOPES section Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-30 22:32             ` Taylor Blau
2022-07-06 17:44               ` Glen Choo
2022-06-30 18:13           ` [PATCH v6 2/5] Documentation: define protected configuration Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-30 23:49             ` Taylor Blau
2022-07-06 18:21               ` Glen Choo
2022-06-30 18:13           ` [PATCH v6 3/5] config: learn `git_protected_config()` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-01  1:22             ` Taylor Blau
2022-07-06 22:42               ` Glen Choo
2022-06-30 18:13           ` [PATCH v6 4/5] safe.directory: use git_protected_config() Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-06-30 18:13           ` [PATCH v6 5/5] setup.c: create `discovery.bare` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-01  1:30             ` Taylor Blau
2022-07-07 19:55               ` Glen Choo
2022-06-30 22:13           ` [PATCH v6 0/5] config: introduce discovery.bare and protected config Taylor Blau
2022-06-30 23:07           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-07-01 17:37             ` Glen Choo
2022-07-08 21:58               ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-07-12 20:47                 ` Glen Choo
2022-07-12 23:53                   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-07-07 23:01           ` [PATCH v7 " Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-07 23:01             ` [PATCH v7 1/5] Documentation/git-config.txt: add SCOPES section Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-07 23:43               ` Junio C Hamano
2022-07-08 17:01                 ` Glen Choo
2022-07-08 19:01                   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-07-08 21:38                     ` Glen Choo
2022-07-07 23:01             ` [PATCH v7 2/5] Documentation: define protected configuration Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-08  0:39               ` Junio C Hamano
2022-07-07 23:01             ` [PATCH v7 3/5] config: learn `git_protected_config()` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-07 23:01             ` [PATCH v7 4/5] safe.directory: use git_protected_config() Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-07 23:01             ` [PATCH v7 5/5] setup.c: create `discovery.bare` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-08  1:07             ` [PATCH v7 0/5] config: introduce discovery.bare and protected config Junio C Hamano
2022-07-08 20:35               ` Glen Choo
2022-07-12 22:11                 ` Glen Choo
2022-07-14 21:27             ` [PATCH v8 0/5] config: introduce safe.bareRepository " Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-14 21:27               ` [PATCH v8 1/5] Documentation/git-config.txt: add SCOPES section Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-14 21:27               ` [PATCH v8 2/5] Documentation: define protected configuration Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-14 21:27               ` [PATCH v8 3/5] config: learn `git_protected_config()` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-25 18:26                 ` SANITIZE=address failure on master (was: [PATCH v8 3/5] config: learn `git_protected_config()`) Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-07-25 20:15                   ` Glen Choo
2022-07-25 20:41                     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-07-25 20:56                       ` Glen Choo
2022-07-14 21:28               ` [PATCH v8 4/5] safe.directory: use git_protected_config() Glen Choo via GitGitGadget
2022-07-14 21:28               ` [PATCH v8 5/5] setup.c: create `safe.bareRepository` Glen Choo via GitGitGadget

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