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From: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
To: Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>
Cc: "Stefan Beller" <sbeller@google.com>,
	"Junio C Hamano" <gitster@pobox.com>,
	"Phillip Wood" <phillip.wood@dunelm.org.uk>,
	"git@vger.kernel.org" <git@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: pushing for a new hash, was Re: [PATCH 2/3] rebase: Add tests for console output
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 00:22:50 +0200 (CEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.21.1.1706070008440.171564@virtualbox> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170602175455.GA30988@aiede.mtv.corp.google.com>

Hi Jonathan,

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017, Jonathan Nieder wrote:

> Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Stefan Beller wrote:
> 
> >> We had a discussion off list how much of the test suite is in bad shape,
> >> and "$ git grep ^index" points out a lot of places as well.
> >
> > Maybe we should call out a specific month (or even a longer period) during
> > which we try to push toward that new hash function, and focus more on
> > those tasks (and on critical bug fixes, if any) than anything else.
> 
> Thanks for offering. ;-)

Undoubtedly my lack of command of the English language is to blame for
this misunderstanding.

By no means did I try to indicate that I am ready to accept the
responsibility of working toward a new hash dumped on me.

What I wanted to suggest instead was that the current direction looks very
unfocused to me, and that I do not see anything going forward in a
coherent manner. Hence my suggestion to make it public known that a
certain time period would be dedicated (and contributions would be highly
encouraged) to work on replacing SHA-1 by something else.

But:

1) this cannot be a one-person effort, it is too large

2) it cannot even be as uncoordinated an effort as it is now, because that
leads only to bikeshedding instead of progress

3) the only person who could make that call is Junio

4) we still have the problem that there is no cryptography expert among
those who in the Git project are listened to

> How did you get the impression that their opinion had no impact? We have
> been getting feedback about the choice of hash function both on and off
> list from a variety of people, some indisputably security experts.
> Sometimes the best one can do is to just listen.

I did get the impression by talking at length to a cryptography expert who
successfully resisted any suggestions to get involved in the Git mailing
list.

There were also accounts floating around on Twitter that a certain
cryptography expert who dared to mention already back in 2005 how
dangerous it would be to hardcode SHA-1 into Git was essentially shown the
finger, and I cannot fault him for essentially saying "I told you so"
publicly.

In my mind, it would have made sense to ask well-respected cryptographers
about their opinions and then try to figure out a consensus among them (as
opposed to what I saw so far, a lot of enthusastic talk by developers with
little standing in the cryptography community, mostly revolving around
hash size and speed as opposed to security). And then try to implement
that consensus in Git. Given my recent success rate with SHA-1 related
concerns, I am unfortunately not the person who can bring that about.

But maybe you are.

Ciao,
Dscho

  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-06-06 22:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-05-31 10:42 [PATCH 0/3] Add regression tests for recent rebase -i fixes Phillip Wood
2017-05-31 10:42 ` [PATCH 1/3] rebase -i: Add test for reflog message Phillip Wood
2017-06-01  2:00   ` Junio C Hamano
2017-05-31 10:42 ` [PATCH 2/3] rebase: Add tests for console output Phillip Wood
2017-05-31 19:02   ` Phillip Wood
2017-06-01  1:59     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-01 12:56   ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-06-01 23:40     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-01 23:47       ` Stefan Beller
2017-06-02 12:47         ` pushing for a new hash, was " Johannes Schindelin
2017-06-02 17:54           ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-06-02 18:05             ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-06-02 20:29             ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2017-06-15 10:38               ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-06-03  0:36             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-06 22:22             ` Johannes Schindelin [this message]
2017-06-06 22:45               ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-06-07  1:09                 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-07  2:18                   ` [PATCH] t4005: modernize style and drop hard coded sha1 Stefan Beller
2017-06-07 17:39                     ` Brandon Williams
2017-06-06 22:45               ` pushing for a new hash, was Re: [PATCH 2/3] rebase: Add tests for console output Stefan Beller
2017-06-06 22:52                 ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-06-07  0:34                 ` Samuel Lijin
2017-06-07 14:47                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-06-07 16:53                   ` Stefan Beller
2017-06-07 10:47     ` Phillip Wood
2017-06-09 16:39       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-14 10:18         ` Phillip Wood
2017-06-14 12:51       ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-05-31 10:42 ` [PATCH 3/3] rebase: Add tests for console output with conflicting stash Phillip Wood
2017-06-14 10:24 ` [PATCH v2 0/3] Add regression tests for rectent rebase -i fixes Phillip Wood
2017-06-14 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 1/3] rebase -i: Add test for reflog message Phillip Wood
2017-06-14 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 2/3] rebase: Add regression tests for console output Phillip Wood
2017-06-14 10:24   ` [PATCH v2 3/3] rebase: Add more " Phillip Wood
2017-06-14 20:35   ` [PATCH v2 0/3] Add regression tests for rectent rebase -i fixes Johannes Schindelin
2017-06-15 23:05   ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-15 23:23     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-15 23:29       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-16 13:49         ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-06-16 18:43           ` Johannes Sixt
2017-06-16 21:05             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-19 19:45             ` Johannes Sixt
2017-06-19 20:02               ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-19  9:49           ` Phillip Wood
2017-06-19 15:45             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-19  9:52         ` Phillip Wood
2017-06-19 17:56 ` [PATCH v3 0/4] Add regression tests for recent " Phillip Wood
2017-06-19 17:56   ` [PATCH v3 1/4] sequencer: print autostash messages to stderr Phillip Wood
2017-06-19 17:56   ` [PATCH v3 2/4] rebase -i: Add test for reflog message Phillip Wood
2017-06-19 17:56   ` [PATCH v3 3/4] rebase: Add regression tests for console output Phillip Wood
2017-06-19 17:56   ` [PATCH v3 4/4] rebase: Add more " Phillip Wood
2017-06-23  4:17   ` [PATCH v3 0/4] Add regression tests for recent rebase -i fixes Junio C Hamano
2017-06-23  5:07     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-23  9:53       ` Phillip Wood
2017-06-23 17:03         ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-23 18:53           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-26  9:17             ` Phillip Wood
2017-06-23 19:01           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-26  9:23             ` Phillip Wood

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