From: "brian m. carlson" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: Jonathan Nieder <email@example.com> Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org, Raxel Gutierrez <email@example.com>, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, Junio C Hamano <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Taylor Blau <email@example.com>, Emily Shaffer <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Pain points in Git's patch flow Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 02:04:32 +0000 [thread overview] Message-ID: <YIYfsMsz0Uz48GaI@camp.crustytoothpaste.net> (raw) In-Reply-To: <YHaIBvl6Mf7ztJB3@google.com> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5859 bytes --] On 2021-04-14 at 06:13:26, Jonathan Nieder wrote: > Those four are important in my everyday life. Questions: > > 1. What pain points in the patch flow for git.git are important to > you? I realize I'm a bit late here, but I've been thinking about this some and wanted to chime in. I have trouble finding all the spots where people have given me review feedback. I have patch mails and responses to those mails go to a particular folder, but I still often find that I'm not quite sure if I've gotten every piece of feedback in a review. Sometimes, embarrassingly, I don't, and then I have to send another reroll. Regardless, this makes rerolling a series much slower as I have to comb my mail multiple times. I find I'm often unsure what to put in the cover letter for a v2 or subsequent series. Clearly people don't want the same thing as v1, but I rarely have useful information other than a summary of changes. I have tooling to automatically generate the proper range for range-diffs in cover letters, but that tooling requires some sort of manual timestamp, which means I need to go search for my previous series to find the date and generate the range diff, or if I'm in a rush, I just have to omit it. This can take some time, having to guess what I named the cover letter the last time and search for it in a mailbox with a 6-digit quantity of mails. In general, I have trouble keeping track of the patch mails I've sent. I do definitely need to refer to them later, but I don't generally keep them around on my system since they tend to duplicate my repository, so I end up needing to find them in my mailbox, which as mentioned, is slow and error prone. I find that the git-contacts script is often not helpful to find reviewers. When I send out a series, it often suggests Peff and Junio. While both of them are very capable, they are also not capable of reviewing every series, and in many cases I know full well that one or the other is not going to be able to give me a good review (for lack of familiarity with the SHA-256 work, due to having many other things to review and to do in life, or for other reasons). It also, unfortunately, suggests me as a reviewer for many things, which while flattering, reflects the fact that I've touched a lot of code and not that I have a deep understanding of most of the codebase, which I do not. For areas where I do have relevant insight, such as the signature code, I'm often not chosen. I realize a lot of these are not intrinsic to our workflow and can be solved with tooling, but because I haven't built that tooling, they're pain points that I experience in our workflow. > 2. What tricks do you use to get by with those existing pain points? I've built some tooling around this, including mail filtering, aliases, and scripting, but it doesn't seem like enough. I know others have built really great tooling for themselves, but by the time I notice these pain points, it's usually the evening and I don't have time to build tooling and get things sent out as well. I also don't especially enjoy building tooling here. The friction here makes me less likely to send out patches and much slower to reroll patches than I'd otherwise be. And I feel like that means that I practically can only ever send out a series when I have more time on the weekend, and as a result, I worry that my patches hold up others in the tree much more often than I'd like. It also makes contributing to Git less fun, which is important since overwhelmingly my patches are sent on my own time. > 3. Do you think patchwork goes in a direction that is likely to help > with these? I don't think I know enough about it to say. If it can more clearly track review feedback and help keep track of patch emails, I think it would be a major improvement, for me at least. > 4. What other tools would you like to see that could help? I think we definitely need a bug tracker. We extremely frequently lose bugs and feature requests on the list and people aren't very likely to search the list. If we could use the same one as someone else, such as the kernel, that would be ideal, because it means people are more likely to already have an account and therefore the friction to report a bug is lower. Alternatively, we could use something like debbugs which is controllable entirely by email and therefore requires no accounts (but does require someone to occasionally prune reported spam). I know full well why we don't use a forge-based model and I'm not recommending that, but I do want to point out that forges solve all of my pain points, and I do have a much quicker turnaround time on patches when I'm using a forge. So ideally we'd have some standard or recommended tooling, whether built by us or by others (e.g., an open source project for patch workflows), that addresses these pain points so that everyone doesn't have to build their own and turnaround time can be improved. I have seen replies downthread that some developers really are reticent to use more common tooling, like web interfaces. While I do want to keep our project as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, I worry that by catering to folks who don't want to adopt this tooling, we are drastically reducing the number of possible contributors of all sorts (code authors, documentation writers, bug reporters) by not doing so and worsening our own experience in many ways. I do think we should adopt modern tooling (e.g., web interfaces) provided that it is usable for people with accessibility needs, even if that makes some people unhappy.  I don't, as a general rule, delete emails to this list or otherwise. -- brian m. carlson (he/him or they/them) Houston, Texas, US [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 263 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-04-26 2:04 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-04-14 6:13 Jonathan Nieder 2021-04-14 7:22 ` Bagas Sanjaya 2021-04-14 8:02 ` Junio C Hamano 2021-04-14 21:42 ` Junio C Hamano 2021-04-15 8:49 ` Denton Liu 2021-04-15 6:06 ` Junio C Hamano 2021-04-15 15:45 ` Son Luong Ngoc 2021-04-19 2:57 ` Eric Wong 2021-04-19 13:35 ` Theodore Ts'o 2021-04-21 10:19 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2021-04-28 7:21 ` Eric Wong 2021-04-28 7:05 ` Eric Wong 2021-04-15 18:25 ` Atharva Raykar 2021-04-16 19:50 ` Junio C Hamano 2021-04-16 20:25 ` Junio C Hamano 2021-05-02 5:35 ` ZheNing Hu 2021-04-18 8:29 ` Sebastian Schuberth 2021-04-18 20:54 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2021-04-19 2:58 ` Eric Wong 2021-04-19 5:54 ` Sebastian Schuberth 2021-04-19 6:04 ` Sebastian Schuberth 2021-04-19 8:26 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2021-04-19 19:23 ` Sebastian Schuberth 2021-04-19 22:34 ` Theodore Ts'o 2021-04-20 6:30 ` Sebastian Schuberth 2021-04-20 16:37 ` Theodore Ts'o 2021-04-30 20:45 ` Felipe Contreras 2021-04-20 10:34 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2021-04-19 19:36 ` Eric Wong 2021-04-19 19:49 ` Sebastian Schuberth 2021-04-19 22:00 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 2021-05-08 2:10 ` dwh 2021-04-19 21:49 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev 2021-04-19 23:03 ` Stephen Smith 2021-05-08 2:08 ` dwh 2021-05-08 4:41 ` Bagas Sanjaya 2021-04-30 20:58 ` Felipe Contreras 2021-04-21 4:46 ` Daniel Axtens 2021-04-26 2:04 ` brian m. carlson [this message] 2021-04-26 14:24 ` Theodore Ts'o 2021-04-26 14:36 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2021-04-28 7:59 ` Eric Wong 2021-04-28 22:44 ` brian m. carlson 2021-04-30 20:16 ` Felipe Contreras 2021-04-30 20:35 ` Felipe Contreras 2021-04-30 21:09 ` Felipe Contreras
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