From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3260E1F5AE for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 07:58:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728398AbgFRH55 (ORCPT ); Thu, 18 Jun 2020 03:57:57 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:51114 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728218AbgFRH5z (ORCPT ); Thu, 18 Jun 2020 03:57:55 -0400 Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E7AFC06174E for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 00:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id v19so1273117qtq.10 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 00:57:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=liEQ1ucRMtGZ58Kfbs4/tFGRiGPd/EJ/V/gDBNx//uM=; b=d4zLNaSiGIvhYSVl2llapNIK7wjAuqb74uHndix0AeKzPM6zP9ahNkEDi2JxIUf1XD YwHuqlTp3lBaLZWgnEteTM7ZNhCuDuMwYdBD32yOhkHfyR1WbnfzEddQNBNLNy0LaeOb KcQ6e8mvRcZEicLIe9Axmi0SQ6NLZBekqVVw62Rc+PmDXpEFmmyiI/wcSqIMLnKBoE+s 0DcN1XVJWhQ/QGbzSVhOp5J319ijfhI/DSwx3BB6QrIJQaZbd3nnjsZQqsyDL2WqYnOJ 3zZWT+dh/UCs1p+uX08Au+QCwjFGYXn//XZA8KhXMV4k5wMyHKaB4IqzPFD9qND2ClNL Vp+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=liEQ1ucRMtGZ58Kfbs4/tFGRiGPd/EJ/V/gDBNx//uM=; b=mIuDt7Ob4cLBUzENbAcmzLHgPySgrPvLLtPszveoifSRbvv3H3bUxbI2OIGvnfXUT6 S8QfD62AACl3fcbkGHEXNtVZh5yn1bvorV1bpmjZVaDwMhoimvEt3oUg9ybOI/q+G0qi sP9fZHGGhPuCC8tpTOmO+MOr12f7R6Nl2T84xocIgIRGmhnS4Ur4u897XOgCSXcb3EqC 2gTWdKV94Wf4E8HXsLT+Ehv9yJkvNTL7nhg7fLBOSxwaMvwQ+MYN97pq+rxK5ecQi2vX ZP0UjIeiFkWexA2sBHrabOTmc2mp/4JBvK5/q4Y9pIlhDO23VoTs8Ck3H+omwi5MVlj7 oWPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533KMFUd2Ht1rja/vT4mWvJ3+YgU7zAIeQsXTVtPbifVoIWeh6z0 kkcWjbWhcnG4o4mwPzG7kRNEBgdbecPoAVWC2G0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwHqPjEI94NVlPYOotDeqC79Ec+mfnQQ386e6YKX8YuK9bDCCBEuDJ8S6uSHXw8FOF3UcsvtnafQ9SpSUJiuw8= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:664a:: with SMTP id j10mr2971940qtp.85.1592467073813; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 00:57:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200614181906.u42tuny3eipvhd46@chatter.i7.local> <20200616074316.GA21462@kitsune.suse.cz> <20200617201037.GA86579@google.com> <20200617201709.GB86579@google.com> In-Reply-To: <20200617201709.GB86579@google.com> From: demerphq Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:57:42 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Rename offensive terminology (master) To: Jonathan Nieder Cc: Junio C Hamano , =?UTF-8?Q?Michal_Such=C3=A1nek?= , =?UTF-8?Q?S=C3=A9rgio_Augusto_Vianna?= , Konstantin Ryabitsev , Johannes Schindelin , Don Goodman-Wilson , Git , newren@gmail.com, philipoakley@iee.email, "brian m. carlson" , Simon Pieters , Derrick Stolee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 at 22:17, Jonathan Nieder wrote: > > Jonathan Nieder wrote: > > Junio C Hamano wrote: > >> demerphq writes: > > >>> kind of confusion. Consider how this conversation goes for us: > >>> > >>> A: "No you need to fetch trunk from the remote, then you need to merge > >>> it to your local trunk and then push it to the master trunk". > >>> B: "Ok." > >> > >> Hmph, why isn't the last one "trunk trunk"? > [...] > >> What I am trying to get at is, after changing the name that is given > >> by default to the primary branch in a newly created repositories by > >> "git init" to 'main' (which I am OK with, and it seems that the > >> major projects and repository hosting services will be doing anyway > >> with or without getting themselves in this discussion on this list), > >> wouldn't we risk the same "master master" confusion caused by and to > >> those newer users who learn 'main' is the word given to the primary > >> thing? > > > > I think Yves's point is that when the tool you are building has a > > component named $FOO, it's confusing to also have a branch named $FOO. > [...] > > In particular when building distributed systems, historically it has > > been common to have one of the components being built be named > > 'master'. > > Of course I missed the other point --- hostnames like master. > (e.g., a hypothetical master.kernel.org), refering to the source of > truth for something that then gets replicated. > > I don't think we're likely to see hostnames like main.kernel.org > because it's just *so generic* as a word. Yep, you summarized my point well. I would say master.kernel.org is a correct use of the term "master copy", and the use in the branch name is simply not. My "master branch" for git.git is NOT *the* master. It doesn't make sense to call something "master" and say it means "master copy" when there are actually multiple copies of the master. That isn't what "master copy" means. So I would say that since in practice very often there will exist a repo which is considered to be *the* master copy of the repo having "master" as a default branch name is unhelpful. And as you say "main" does not have this problem to quite the same extent. Although frankly I could see "main" being a common term in more distributed development processes where there might not be the same concept of a "master" repo, but there might be a "main" repo where people commonly share their work. Ultimately if I was the decision maker here I would be choosing terms that are as workflow agnostic as I can find. "main", "master" and "primary" are not workflow agnostic, they are if anything a bit workflow opinionated. "trunk" on the other hand seems pretty self-descriptive and doesn't have much baggage. It's bark is worse than its byte however. :-) cheers, Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"