From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F341F4B4 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 02:42:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726718AbgLJCkI (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Dec 2020 21:40:08 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:36278 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726278AbgLJCkA (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Dec 2020 21:40:00 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-x441.google.com (mail-wr1-x441.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::441]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E603C0613CF for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 18:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x441.google.com with SMTP id m5so3858753wrx.9 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 18:39:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7DuakkEVBCauqHN76yS8qtxIgiIhyI1tqm3Z2TE9N3k=; b=G7rX09+vdKjoPGkbUeMWM4nSQiYOPW6iOFe62GLWENHcsaaC3A/ZCwC0wZ/ZROPvLA KoVi+cW+aw0dLUMVZMp+sWhlidEjbLqVNJKYQ8QaetZQ+TXu7y/b1TXo2IRnsifz8939 CKczbbfkkEh9+hb+ARb/xOzvkJWC1kK11elEYOTqC5voeEuqkwzBW4sNsT8I78q2JbB1 uOUritT9JKUNlocAstjNoFX1zVBDQEQY3BucVzCCm7kD4YYykho/tsMRUXieWw5/AvLQ Y/vwVvrNomHW8lAwiA/eifxVatPdoqaQSJRz1zf3PT0a+zHaUyo40MHkznizR/otyw7P Bxjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7DuakkEVBCauqHN76yS8qtxIgiIhyI1tqm3Z2TE9N3k=; b=f29X75RqdbtYtBrUXp2yIsEvMFlm+lwn2/eBcJT4ELt3D2Wko8az06h729lsZqyxo4 opSlhLu+is/FW8c3yDVQc+NXN/sLuFl45oUObEjHv2ghYob+g9aOVSNiJj3q4atu5wf/ zY7cozldzrukd+cOHH4/igXjkcE2Yyj2V0ApuBjuUvY1NB30RrTIb/8KEll7NkUpE+B9 Jvm/8faQbNWSZLv7/Zq8MDGoN5+YC9FDc0yhQuLQamsQnJhbSPt/IVuHZdWzWN2KHEHK uhKPlATznHMlPYrLK62PZcyM3/qs48p5k20U5NAl9IongLRwmTWe9XOltIVzzIbMFcPm 7yqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Bd7OaZdCxJGVQxt0aAX0uOMclhKfTe7SMBeDPGn7YK0KUAXCc FmArgplF0b+KritLOSqIfOHjsPq0hy/5mwYiCAU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJze6KlIuvbRCEgcLUJj/cNPhXjd+OEEuzZgix5zS4bnhZrCBbdC6OhK5Ojfg3l0z/g7m1JujHNE0MmkFXymeDc= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4349:: with SMTP id u9mr5454908wrr.319.1607567958993; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 18:39:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201204061623.1170745-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <20201204061623.1170745-3-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Felipe Contreras Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:39:07 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 02/14] pull: improve default warning To: Elijah Newren Cc: Junio C Hamano , Jacob Keller , Git Mailing List , =?UTF-8?B?VsOtdCBPbmRydWNo?= , Alex Henrie , Jeff King , Philip Oakley , "Theodore Y . Ts'o" , John Keeping , Richard Hansen , "Brian M. Carlson" , "W. Trevor King" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Hello, On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:05 PM Elijah Newren wrote: > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:53 AM Felipe Contreras > wrote: > > I could do some mail archeology if you want, but this issue starts to > > be mentioned at least since 2010, and virtually everyone (except one > > person) agreed the default must change, even Linus Torvalds. Reading > > back what Linus said [5], it's something very, *very* close to what > > I'm proposing (I would argue my proposal is better). > > > > So you let me know. Do you want me to dig a decade of discussions and > > coalesce those conclusions into a summary so we can decide how to > > proceed? Or should I drop the plan? Only that if we drop it, I > > *guarantee* we will discuss it yet again years later. > > > > Moreover, this is the reason why I split the series in 3. Even if you > > decide you don't want to change the default, part I of the series can > > still be merged *today*, and everyone would benefit. > > Have I missed some subtlety here? This whole email appears to me to > be arguing against a strawman. Reading Junio's other emails in this > thread[1][2], it's pretty clear he thinks the current behavior is > buggy and suggests how it should be changed. From what I can tell, > you appear to be arguing against doing nothing and against only > accepting perfection, neither of which were positions I saw anyone > take. In fact, the positions you argue for at length appear to > exactly match the ones he took[1][2]. What am I missing? People change their minds. Perhaps I misinterpreted something, but when Junio said "I dunno" I take it to mean: he is unsure my proposal "pull.mode=ff-only" makes sense. He also said "for anybody who uses git for real, [force -ff-only] would be pretty much a useless default", which I take it to mean that perhaps we shouldn't change the default to that. Back in 2013 Junio said "I now see how such a default makes sense." [1], but we are in 2020 and such a default that made sense is not the default. Mind reading is a really bad habbit [2]; I don't know what other people think, and I would not presume to know. All I know is that the path forward is unclear. And because I prognosticated that, I split the series in 3 parts, and I've yet to see any objection to part I, which would improve the situation for users *today*. So, while we make up our collective minds, there's no reason to bother our users with an annoying warning on *every* *single* *pull*. Cheers. [1] https://lore.kernel.org/git/7vli74baym.fsf@alter.siamese.dyndns.org/ [2] https://cogbtherapy.com/cbt-blog/common-cognitive-distortions-mind-reading -- Felipe Contreras