From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from out1.vger.email (out1.vger.email [IPv6:2620:137:e000::1:20]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6981F452 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2023 01:00:22 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: dcvr.yhbt.net; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 header.b=bRDdB9/B; dkim-atps=neutral Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S233311AbjDAA76 (ORCPT ); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:59:58 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:32798 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S233301AbjDAA74 (ORCPT ); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:59:56 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-x1130.google.com (mail-yw1-x1130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1130]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 072561D853 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x1130.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5445009c26bso446414767b3.8 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:59:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680310795; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=OeILpiV/CS/YO82xfHJ+1blebrRjB3olMxG8+wpkXpQ=; b=bRDdB9/Bou4Kjdpucjxi+KwayM9EHuFS9t9RS6VxTqtwJRBPBNkkYkZ1vSK6M78Xya E/ca84coVMzDBxUrmGgOyv+8CzihytkxtcAdw6RPxIvjcv8sXLYpZGXwKZY++qrEBq/G 1M/QFb+ptZEqmLIR4I3kZj5JNoF/tZ9aRhQj9kXhAHLwvmMwgcqb1icdLK3P1KVyvzNz cg5qN3plDMkhQ+9957keT2kkFQ2uOvtXbw2xB5I64TQnnEY+mOZ1F9tc4UxUHrd2xqfC 7iqTYVetsx2Okhio0sLBb1kJ5a4e75fbiW4JUNg7g/4iZTg4mFwwIYpPY8LWqVc1Sb1e 87VQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680310795; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OeILpiV/CS/YO82xfHJ+1blebrRjB3olMxG8+wpkXpQ=; b=odtvB9PNK36JGlTIsNNKag9rTUE+cEaCqvYqvaXtQSCHENnQ9Go1C/K0wW90q2Cmrs C1SMlyGjX6uJ4lfRK4vz8TzXo32EsGZVPsytqUQTTbbd31sJaqyLq+enuC9aI6fp3Tis 3n/zA2O1NyEfb45yjOM3qTxpgn1DBgUuvfMFqTxPs5/zb8J0LJrACkc/gYC9z/3vQX8G ulK83rr+lzQDKrUfVjhCtA8dQxgMcpXpYV+aI1aBuAhqPz7aRAZbuzHGGmcelWe6m9IO jXKtc1VjzFoU4HqudJMAcVnJAV05ROklH77eQv7FL5Nq47vrrccLFaoXsfC+uaFhHxMf cK5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fYvcB2Z9B88741o1BrBMBXcFK91+ibpnGFxNKWyteP9296zlcm 9+sP2Fy130djrihWnxvKfNKK5ZzN5/vV0JuvVbbSGDHN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ao8vZ6wjdGyMITBD/ZxcaVP7+Echlf/v5GkDak2lbGT+B+lnkXKelPrN+bpKxlg5kn1Iq69u2kDdejQcqLwHE= X-Received: by 2002:a81:7e10:0:b0:52f:184a:da09 with SMTP id o16-20020a817e10000000b0052f184ada09mr6150708ywn.2.1680310795032; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:59:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230328173932.3614601-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Felipe Contreras Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:59:43 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/6] test: make the test suite work with zsh To: Taylor Blau Cc: Junio C Hamano , "brian m. carlson" , git@vger.kernel.org, =?UTF-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsCBCamFybWFzb24=?= , =?UTF-8?Q?SZEDER_G=C3=A1bor?= , Eric Sunshine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 6:04=E2=80=AFPM Taylor Blau wrote= : > > On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 08:19:08AM -0600, Felipe Contreras wrote: > > > It is my impression, however, that zsh in its native mode is even > > > further out and away, pushing it on the other side of the line of > > > being reasonable to force our develoerps to adjust to. > > > > Just because it's your impression doesn't mean it's true. > > Sure, but zsh's incompatibility with bash is clear evidence that it is > further out from the POSIX standard. No, the POSIX standard is not whatever bash does; bash does many things that are not part of POSIX, and it even has a POSIX mode precisely because it does not follow it to a tee: `bash --posix`. If `ksh` does something that bash does differently, is that evidence that `ksh` is further out from the POSIX standard? This argument does not make sense. > But I think the argument is missing the point, anyway, which is that it's= incompatible with POSIX. So is bash. All shells in the world are incompatible with the POSIX standard in one way or another. POSIX doesn't say anything about the $COLUMNS variable, and yet bash sets it (and many other variables). Does that mean bash is "non-POSIX"? Of course not; POSIX doesn't say "thou shall not set the $COLUMNS environment variable", so it's OK for bash to do that, it's still compatible with posix (as long as you use `--posix`). This's just not how standards work. > Is it worth adapting our explicitly POSIX-compatible test suite to work > with a non-POSIX shell? I think not. All shells are non-POSIX. --=20 Felipe Contreras