From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Sean Kelley" Subject: Re: Considering teaching plumbing to users harmful Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:53:45 -0500 Message-ID: <89b129c60807161553u58f0c926yed4d6fabe49f42af@mail.gmail.com> References: <32541b130807161053w24a21d7bh1fa800a714ce75db@mail.gmail.com> <7v7iblsnfh.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> <32541b130807161151x19c20f9t91b7fb9b8c7b8c7b@mail.gmail.com> <7vmykhr6h1.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> <32541b130807161229ob4c21cbsc6c86ee3e42c4101@mail.gmail.com> <7vabghr5br.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> <32541b130807161246l579d3a5em65496ee9119ef1ef@mail.gmail.com> <7vr69tpoze.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> <20080716223205.GK2167@mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: git@vger.kernel.org X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Thu Jul 17 00:54:48 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.176.167]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KJFtV-000774-Mh for gcvg-git-2@gmane.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:54:46 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753952AbYGPWxr (ORCPT ); Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:53:47 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751200AbYGPWxr (ORCPT ); Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:53:47 -0400 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.235]:29892 "EHLO wr-out-0506.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750772AbYGPWxq (ORCPT ); Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:53:46 -0400 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 69so4240843wri.5 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=OKz09mY2Nl6Z63O56vbq7PDx2nRmMYvCvisBNaXwDnM=; b=Fd2Pt07ybQEr4nni1iyRytRASRy3//Iq1jUm8Dy8DVf83XZeJRs4YFIPSBVlQEPDzd H5SdsHjKtDsJ3kCMiSw/gYX4OmQRy99VW8HwqEWvwJqnAz8PAmWF7qr6e4fOjmL5QvXu ZaoFGD5Hkq2XA57On5XaSCEYlAVGFjc/+8yXA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=XRlC+8XHNV6FeEvwDcEx0qQLjt5+TTE8Y6D+2ZhuyC2Grt7Nog0OnQI2pzeNiPn6rL AdPVMpCiefJfxDavbv62jiyXKXe2n7a7rACwIxdl+ecs3NVDlzbQG4uRc0ob6tymuBPC omBUrsJiRGuG6cXFwJa+ex9bPOiwxNcqeK4Ps= Received: by 10.90.66.14 with SMTP id o14mr2296284aga.84.1216248825419; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.102.16 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:53:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20080716223205.GK2167@mit.edu> Content-Disposition: inline Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: Hi On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Theodore Tso wrote: > > In general, I find that people are more willing to listen to "we have > a more powerful way of doing things", if you can first give them the > equivalent of the "dumb and stupid" way that they are used to doing > things so they can switch to the new tool right away without too much > of a steep learning curve; they will then switch to the more > advanced/powerful workflows at their own pace. Other people may have > other pedgogical techniques, but I find mine to work fairly well. > > Regards, > > - Ted When one has 100 users in a company using a DVCS, you really need some sort of simplified workflow documented and taught. Not everyone who writes code is particularly keen on the vagaries of a VCS' commands. I know that must be shocking to this audience the GIT list, but it is very very true. They don't give a crap what sort of weird command combination one can pull out of the 100 or so commands when you type git- at a bash prompt. They just want the damn thing to behave in a somewhat friendly fashion. They want to check in their code and get on with software development and not over analyzing how many ways they can do the same command. In my experience, what Ted is suggesting is the only way to handle it. Most developers just want it to work and focus on debugging their project. Never expect your users to have the same interest as you in VCS. Sean