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From: "Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>
To: "brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net>
Cc: "Felipe Contreras" <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>,
	"Johannes Schindelin" <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>,
	"Derrick Stolee" <stolee@gmail.com>,
	"Bagas Sanjaya" <bagasdotme@gmail.com>,
	"Lénaïc Huard" <lenaic@lhuard.fr>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, "Junio C Hamano" <gitster@pobox.com>,
	"Derrick Stolee" <dstolee@microsoft.com>,
	"Eric Sunshine" <sunshine@sunshineco.com>,
	"Đoàn Trần Công Danh" <congdanhqx@gmail.com>,
	"Phillip Wood" <phillip.wood123@gmail.com>,
	"Martin Ågren" <martin.agren@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 4/4] maintenance: optionally use systemd timers on Linux
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 09:03:59 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87wnrooa17.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YKrk4dEjEm6+48ji@camp.crustytoothpaste.net>


On Sun, May 23 2021, brian m. carlson wrote:

> [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> On 2021-05-23 at 18:36:10, Felipe Contreras wrote:
>> Johannes Schindelin wrote:
>> > On Fri, 21 May 2021, Derrick Stolee wrote:
>> > 
>> > > On 5/21/2021 5:59 AM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>> > > > On 21/05/21 05.13, Lénaïc Huard wrote:
>> > > >> The existing mechanism for scheduling background maintenance is done
>> > > >> through cron. On Linux systems managed by systemd, systemd provides an
>> > > >> alternative to schedule recurring tasks: systemd timers.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> The main motivations to implement systemd timers in addition to cron
>> > > >> are:
>> > > >> * cron is optional and Linux systems running systemd might not have it
>> > > >>    installed.
>> > > >> * The execution of `crontab -l` can tell us if cron is installed but not
>> > > >>    if the daemon is actually running.
>> > > >> * With systemd, each service is run in its own cgroup and its logs are
>> > > >>    tagged by the service inside journald. With cron, all scheduled tasks
>> > > >>    are running in the cron daemon cgroup and all the logs of the
>> > > >>    user-scheduled tasks are pretended to belong to the system cron
>> > > >>    service.
>> > > >>    Concretely, a user that doesn’t have access to the system logs won’t
>> > > >>    have access to the log of its own tasks scheduled by cron whereas he
>> > > >>    will have access to the log of its own tasks scheduled by systemd
>> > > >>    timer.
>> > > >
>> > > > For gender neutrality, we can use he/she instead.
>> > >
>> > > Singular "they" is better. Fully accurate and less awkward.
>> > 
>> > I agree.
>> 
>> I disagree.
>
> I'm fully in support of singular "they".  It provides a useful pronoun
> to use in this context, is widely understood and used, is less awkward
> than "he/she," and is less sexist than the indefinite "he."

I think we should be the most concerned about the lack of inclusivity
and chilling effect in us being overly picky about the minute details of
commit message wording, long past the point of practical utility.

In this particular case the context is a discussion about "a user" on a
*nix system and what they do and don't have access to.

I think it's a particularly misguided distraction to argue about
he/she/they here, since the most accurate thing would really be "it".

At least on my *nix systems most users are system users, and don't map
to any particular human being, but I digress.

I would like to encourage people in this thread who are calling for a
change in wording here to consider whether this sort of discussion is a
good use of the ML's time, and the chilling effect of being overly picky
when many contributors are working in their second, third etc. language.

Personally I don't care whether someone submits a patch where their
commit message discusses an example of "he", "she", "they", "it" or
whatever. It's just meant as an example, and not some statement about
what the gender (or lack thereof) of such a user *should* be.

It's immediately obvious what the author meant in this case, and that
the particular wording is arbitrary. For the purposes of discussing the
contribution it matters whether it's unclear or ambiguous, which it's
not.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-05-24  7:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 138+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-05-01 14:52 [PATCH] maintenance: use systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-01 20:02 ` brian m. carlson
2021-05-02  5:28 ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-05-02  6:49   ` Eric Sunshine
2021-05-02  6:45 ` Eric Sunshine
2021-05-02 14:10   ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-05 12:19     ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2021-05-05 14:57       ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-05 12:01   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-05-09 22:34     ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-10 13:03       ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-05-02 11:12 ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-05-03 12:04 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-05-09 21:32 ` [PATCH v2 0/1] " Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-09 21:32   ` [PATCH v2 1/1] " Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-10  1:20     ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2021-05-10  2:48       ` Eric Sunshine
2021-05-10  6:25         ` Junio C Hamano
2021-05-12  0:29           ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2021-05-12  6:59             ` Felipe Contreras
2021-05-12 13:26               ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-12 13:38             ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-12 15:41               ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2021-05-10 18:03     ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-10 18:25       ` Eric Sunshine
2021-05-10 20:09         ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-10 20:52           ` Eric Sunshine
2021-06-08 14:55       ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-10 19:15     ` Martin Ågren
2021-05-11 14:50     ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-11 17:31     ` Derrick Stolee
2021-05-20 22:13   ` [PATCH v3 0/4] " Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-20 22:13     ` [PATCH v3 1/4] cache.h: rename "xdg_config_home" to "xdg_config_home_git" Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-20 23:44       ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2021-05-20 22:13     ` [PATCH v3 2/4] maintenance: introduce ENABLE/DISABLE for code clarity Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-20 22:13     ` [PATCH v3 3/4] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-21  9:52       ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-05-20 22:13     ` [PATCH v3 4/4] maintenance: optionally use systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-21  9:59       ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-05-21 16:59         ` Derrick Stolee
2021-05-22  6:57           ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-05-23 18:36             ` Felipe Contreras
2021-05-23 23:27               ` brian m. carlson
2021-05-24  1:18                 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-05-24  7:03                 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason [this message]
2021-05-24 15:51                   ` Junio C Hamano
2021-05-25  1:50                     ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-05-25 11:13                       ` Felipe Contreras
2021-05-26 10:29                       ` CoC, inclusivity etc. (was "Re: [...] systemd timers on Linux") Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-05-26 16:05                         ` Felipe Contreras
2021-05-27 14:24                         ` Jeff King
2021-05-27 17:30                           ` Felipe Contreras
2021-05-27 23:58                           ` Junio C Hamano
2021-05-28 14:44                           ` Phillip Susi
2021-05-30 21:58                             ` Jeff King
2021-05-24 17:52                   ` [PATCH v3 4/4] maintenance: optionally use systemd timers on Linux Felipe Contreras
2021-05-24  7:15     ` [PATCH v4 0/4] add support for " Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-24  7:15       ` [PATCH v4 1/4] cache.h: Introduce a generic "xdg_config_home_for(…)" function Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-24  9:33         ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-24 12:23           ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2021-05-24  7:15       ` [PATCH v4 2/4] maintenance: introduce ENABLE/DISABLE for code clarity Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-24  9:41         ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-24 12:36           ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2021-05-25  7:18             ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-25  8:02               ` Junio C Hamano
2021-05-24  9:47         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-05-24  7:15       ` [PATCH v4 3/4] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-24 10:12         ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-30  6:39           ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-30 10:16             ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-24  7:15       ` [PATCH v4 4/4] maintenance: add support for systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-05-24  9:55         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-05-24 16:39           ` Eric Sunshine
2021-05-24 18:08         ` Felipe Contreras
2021-05-26 10:26         ` Phillip Wood
2021-05-24  9:04       ` [PATCH v4 0/4] " Junio C Hamano
2021-06-08 13:39       ` [PATCH v5 0/3] " Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-08 13:39         ` [PATCH v5 1/3] cache.h: Introduce a generic "xdg_config_home_for(…)" function Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-08 13:39         ` [PATCH v5 2/3] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-08 13:40         ` [PATCH v5 3/3] maintenance: add support for systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-09  9:34           ` Jeff King
2021-06-09 15:01           ` Phillip Wood
2021-06-09  0:21         ` [PATCH v5 0/3] " Junio C Hamano
2021-06-09 14:54         ` Phillip Wood
2021-06-12 16:50         ` [PATCH v6 0/3] maintenance: " Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-12 16:50           ` [PATCH v6 1/3] cache.h: Introduce a generic "xdg_config_home_for(…)" function Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-12 16:50           ` [PATCH v6 2/3] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-14  4:36             ` Eric Sunshine
2021-06-16 18:12               ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-17  4:11                 ` Eric Sunshine
2021-06-17 14:26               ` Phillip Wood
2021-07-02 15:04               ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-06-12 16:50           ` [PATCH v6 3/3] maintenance: add support for systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-07-02 14:25           ` [PATCH v7 0/3] " Lénaïc Huard
2021-07-02 14:25             ` [PATCH v7 1/3] cache.h: Introduce a generic "xdg_config_home_for(…)" function Lénaïc Huard
2021-07-02 14:25             ` [PATCH v7 2/3] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-07-06 19:56               ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-06 20:52                 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-07-13  0:15                   ` Jeff King
2021-07-13  2:22                     ` Eric Sunshine
2021-07-13  3:56                       ` Jeff King
2021-07-13  5:17                         ` Eric Sunshine
2021-07-13  7:04                       ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-07-06 21:18                 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-08-23 20:06                 ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-23 22:30                   ` Junio C Hamano
2021-07-02 14:25             ` [PATCH v7 3/3] maintenance: add support for systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-07-06 20:03               ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-02 18:18             ` [PATCH v7 0/3] " Junio C Hamano
2021-07-06 13:18             ` Phillip Wood
2021-08-23 20:40             ` [PATCH v8 " Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-23 20:40               ` [PATCH v8 1/3] cache.h: Introduce a generic "xdg_config_home_for(…)" function Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-23 20:40               ` [PATCH v8 2/3] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-24 17:45                 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-08-23 20:40               ` [PATCH v8 3/3] maintenance: add support for systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-24 17:45                 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-08-24 17:47               ` [PATCH v8 0/3] " Derrick Stolee
2021-08-27 21:02               ` [PATCH v9 " Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-27 21:02                 ` [PATCH v9 1/3] cache.h: Introduce a generic "xdg_config_home_for(…)" function Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-27 21:02                 ` [PATCH v9 2/3] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-27 23:54                   ` Ramsay Jones
2021-08-27 21:02                 ` [PATCH v9 3/3] maintenance: add support for systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-09-04 20:54                 ` [PATCH v10 0/3] " Lénaïc Huard
2021-09-04 20:54                   ` [PATCH v10 1/3] cache.h: Introduce a generic "xdg_config_home_for(…)" function Lénaïc Huard
2021-09-04 20:54                   ` [PATCH v10 2/3] maintenance: `git maintenance run` learned `--scheduler=<scheduler>` Lénaïc Huard
2021-09-04 20:55                   ` [PATCH v10 3/3] maintenance: add support for systemd timers on Linux Lénaïc Huard
2021-09-07 16:48                   ` [PATCH v10 0/3] " Derrick Stolee
2021-09-08 11:44                     ` Derrick Stolee
2021-09-09  5:52                       ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-09-09 19:55                         ` Derrick Stolee
2021-09-27 12:50                           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-27 21:44                             ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-17 17:22         ` [PATCH v5 0/3] " Derrick Stolee
2021-08-17 19:43           ` Phillip Wood
2021-08-17 20:29             ` Derrick Stolee
2021-08-18  5:56           ` Lénaïc Huard
2021-08-18 13:28             ` Derrick Stolee
2021-08-18 18:23               ` Junio C Hamano

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