From: "Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>
To: Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>
Cc: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>, Jeff King <peff@peff.net>,
Taylor Blau <me@ttaylorr.com>,
git@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Makefile: add and use the ".DELETE_ON_ERROR" flag
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 15:34:00 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87tulecfx7.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <60dd3c92ef44b_174a220836@natae.notmuch>
On Wed, Jun 30 2021, Felipe Contreras wrote:
> Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 28 2021, Junio C Hamano wrote:
>
>> > I do not see a point in complicating the build procedure to avoid
>> > using it.
>>
>> I'd really understand your and Jeff's concerns if I was proposing some
>> really complex workaround, but it's just extending & making consistent
>> the "mv" dance we already use for 1/2 our rules already.
>
> I'm not entirely sure what's going on here. We have agreed that
> .DELETE_ON_ERROR and the "mv" dance are orthogonal. So the patch to use
> .DELETE_ON_ERROR can move forward, while the "mv" dance can be discussed
> later.
>
> Like Junio and Jeff, I don't see much value in the "mv" dance, but that
> doesn't mean I want it gone. On the contrary, I would to try a scenario
> in which it's usefull.
>
> But that is *orthogonal*. Leave that for another discussion.
Yes, this whole sub-thread is just a side-discussion about a
change-not-in-this-series, which started out as a reference to a larger
series I carved this more narrow change from.
>> Even if you don't care about the end result or making git easier to hack
>> on for people who don't share your setup,
>
> I don't know about Junio, I do want to make git easier to hack for
> people that don't share my setup, but I would like to know what that
> setup is.
I think all of this is covered in detail upthread.
>> I'd think that making those rules consistent across the board makes
>> things less complex, not more.
>
> I don't agree with that. Consistency is just one of the many factors we
> have to consider. Even if 90% of instances in the documentation said
> "fast forward", that doesn't necessarily mean we should convert the
> remaining 10% away from "fast-foward".
>
> First we need to decide what is the end-goal we want to reach, and then
> we can go for consistency.
>
> But again, this is orthogonal to this patch, isn't it?
*nod*. I think for build rules it's easier to reason about them if all
of them e.g. do "$(RM) $@" at the start followed by "mv $@ $@+" at the
end, than wondering if the differences are accidental or intentional (in
most cases they're just a historical accident).q
>> Anyway, let's not discussed this forever. We're clearly getting
>> nowhere. Just for the record I'm quite miffed about the bar for "I don't
>> care about this area/platform/use-case, but this person actively sending
>> me patches in the area says it's helpful to send more patches" is so
>> low.
>
> I don't think it's quite like that. Skepticism doesn't mean disapproval.
>
> I for one are skeptic of the possitive value of the "mv" dance, but I
> wouldn't be surprised in the least if you showed the value in 4 lines of
> code. I just haven't seen them yet.
>
> Once again... That's orthogonal to this patch.
*Nod*, as noted covered upthread.
>> Maybe that's all worth it, and I'd be willing to take the Windows devs
>> at their word that dealing with the make dependency was really *that*
>> painful. But compare that to carrying a few lines of "mv $@+ $@" to, I
>> daresay, make the same or larger relative improvement on AIX.
>
> Oh I don't trust them at all. I did maintain some Windows installers for
> years, and with a couple of tricks I had no problem building them with
> plain Makefiles, with much more complex dependencies.
>
> I'm fairly certain I could make git build for Windows with plain
> Makefiles... But one controversy at a time.
Yeah, I think (from memory of reading the relevant threads) it's some
combinatin of "the dependency is large & painful" and "it's a bit
slower". I've found it hard in the past to get accurate estimates of
what's "slow" from our resident Windows maintainer:) Per:
https://lore.kernel.org/git/875z1lz6wl.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-07-01 13:39 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-22 14:13 [PATCH] Makefile: add and use the ".DELETE_ON_ERROR" flag Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-22 15:27 ` Taylor Blau
2021-06-22 17:34 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-22 19:17 ` Jeff King
2021-06-23 19:54 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-23 22:21 ` Jeff King
2021-06-24 13:53 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-24 14:49 ` Jeff King
2021-06-25 9:49 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-29 2:26 ` Jeff King
2021-06-29 6:19 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-29 7:39 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-29 21:38 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-30 2:23 ` Jeff King
2021-07-01 3:54 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-01 13:34 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason [this message]
2021-07-03 0:41 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-07-03 12:31 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-03 18:42 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-23 19:15 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-23 19:09 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-23 19:01 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-23 19:45 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-23 20:32 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-29 7:29 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-01 3:06 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-23 19:21 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-23 19:59 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-23 20:52 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-29 8:17 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-07-01 3:19 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-29 8:44 ` [PATCH v2] " Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-08-18 21:36 ` [PATCH] Makefile: remove archives before manipulating them with 'ar' SZEDER Gábor
2021-08-19 23:39 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-01 17:06 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
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