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[77.251.215.224]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s16sm1891123eju.25.2019.05.27.13.36.37 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 27 May 2019 13:36:37 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason To: Eric Wong Cc: Chris Mayo , git@vger.kernel.org, git-packagers@googlegroups.com, Dennis Kaarsemaker Subject: Re: [PATCH] send-email: remove documented requirement for Net::SMTP::SSL References: <20190526172242.13000-1-aklhfex@gmail.com> <20190527193517.GA22013@dcvr> User-agent: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster); Emacs 26.1; mu4e 1.1.0 In-reply-to: <20190527193517.GA22013@dcvr> Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 22:36:36 +0200 Message-ID: <87imtvmy7f.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Mon, May 27 2019, Eric Wong wrote: > Chris Mayo wrote: >> git-send-email uses the TLS support in the Net::SMTP core module from >> recent versions of Perl. Documenting the minimum version is complex >> because of separate numbering for Perl (5.21.5~169), Net:SMTP (2.34) >> and libnet (3.01). Version numbers from commit: >> bfbfc9a953 ("send-email: Net::SMTP::starttls was introduced in v2.34", >> 2017-05-31) > > No disagreement for removing the doc requirement for Net::SMTP::SSL. > > But core modules can be split out by OS packagers. For > Fedora/RH-based systems, the trend tends to be increasing > granularity and having more optional packages. > > So I think documenting Net::SMTP (and Net::Domain) as > requirements would still be good, perhaps with a note stating > they're typically installed with Perl. > > Fwiw, I recently ran into some issues where core modules such as > Devel::Peek, Encode, and autodie were separate packages on CentOS 7. I've done enough git-send-email patching in anger for a year at least with what's sitting in "next" so I'm not working on this, but just my 0.02: I wonder if we shouldn't just be much more aggressive about version requirements for something like git-send-email. Do we really have git users who want a new git *and* have an old perl *and* aren't just getting it from an OS package where the module is dual-life, so the distributor can just package up the newer version if we were to require it? I.e. couldn't we just remove the fallback code added in 0ead000c3a ("send-email: Net::SMTP::SSL is obsolete, use only when necessary", 2017-03-24) and do away with this version detection (which b.t.w. should just do a $obj->can("starttls") check instead). For shipping a newer Net::SMTP we aren't talking about upgrading /usr/bin/perl, just that module, and anyone who's packaging git (e.g. Debian) who cares about minimal dependencies is likely splitting out git-send-email.perl anyway. We could then just add some flag similar to NO_PERL_CPAN_FALLBACKS so we'd error out by default unless these modules were there when git was built, packagers could then still set some "no I can't be bothered with send-email at all" or "no I can't be bothered with its SSL support", in the latter case git-send-email would work except for the SSL parts. That would take care of the communication about module dependencies via manpage problem since we'd error by default. When I package things I much prefer that error mode to "parts of package silently don't work because we check at runtime and I didn't religiously scour the docs/release notes". I wouldn't say the same thing about git-add--interactive.perl due to more common its use is.