From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Thomas Rast Subject: GSoC 2014: Summary so far, discussion starter: how to improve? Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:09:33 +0200 Message-ID: <8761stx04i.fsf@linux-k42r.v.cablecom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Cc: Ben Straub , Carlos =?utf-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn?= Nieto , Christian Couder , David Michael Barr , Edward Thomson , Florian Achleitner , Jakub Narebski , Jeff King , Jens Lehmann , Martin Woodward , Matthieu Moy , Michael Haggerty , Michael Schubert , Nguyen Thai Ngoc Duy , Pat Thoyts , Paul Mackerras , Philip Kelley , Ramkumar Ramachandra , Ramsay Jones , Russell Belfer , Scott Chacon , Shawn Pearce , Thomas Gumm To: git@vger.kernel.org X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Sat Oct 19 08:09:57 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VXPjV-0004bB-7v for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:09:53 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751211Ab3JSGJt convert rfc822-to-quoted-printable (ORCPT ); Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:09:49 -0400 Received: from psi.thgersdorf.net ([176.9.98.78]:35702 "EHLO mail.psioc.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750966Ab3JSGJs convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Sat, 19 Oct 2013 02:09:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.psioc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791DC4D650A; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:09:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at psioc.net Received: from mail.psioc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.psioc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id FejVHrspDWTj; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:09:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from linux-k42r.v.cablecom.net.thomasrast.ch (unknown [213.55.184.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail.psioc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B866D4D64C1; Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:09:32 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: [Unfortunately libgit2 no longer has a mailing list. I put an arbitrar= y group of libgit2 contributors in the Cc list.] Previous Episodes =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Git participated in Google Summer of Code (GSoC) 2007-2012, but did not participate in 2013 based on discussion in February [1]. At Git-Merge in Berlin there was a discussion round [2] that this post attempts to summarize as a basis for further discussion and (hopefully) participation in GSoC'14. Much sooner than in previous years, Google has already confirmed that GSoC'14 will in fact happen [3]. Note that while mistakes herein are mine, many ideas and opinions aren't. This really tries to be a summary. Please flame >/dev/null, not me. GSoC 2007-2012 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Data presented in [2] shows that roughly half of the projects resulted in merged code, and roughly half of the students remained with the Git community significantly after the end of GSoC. (The sets aren't exactly the same.) A feeling expressed in [1], [2] and elsewhere is that this is not enough value for money and effort. We should therefore discuss how to improve. Note that everyone seems to agree that libgit2 had a much better run in GSoC than core git. There seems to be less agreement on what exactly they do differently, though. Theories =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D These are the hypotheses that I have heard (mostly in [1] and [2]) as to what is bad about Git's prior GSoC participations. * Aiming far too high, focusing on cool/shiny projects with a large impact. This also affects the students, who tend to cluster around the largest, shiniest project suggestions. * Diminishing returns: Git is too mature, with little low-hanging fruit left, making such projects harder * Projects are too political, progress depending on non-technical arguments * Our mentors suck on various axes, notably not supporting students enough in things that matter: - smooth interaction with community - ensure fast iteration/short cycles - navigating the code base * Scope creep: projects tend to get blocked on some bigger refactoring/restructuring task that was not in the original proposal Ideas and Suggestions =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D These are mostly from [2]. There were some suggestions that we learn from Matthieu Moy's very successful student projects (eg. [4]). * View GSoC much more as a lot of work than free labor * Break projects into smaller, easier tasks - They should individually be simple, quick things if the mentor did them. - Should be parallelizable so students don't have to block on reviews= =2E * Mentoring improvements: - Always have a co-mentor - Focus on social aspects (who to Cc, etc.) - Nominate separate "review mentors" to ensure fast review cycles * Define explicit criteria - what we want to do - how we judge code and social interactions - when to fail the students * Have students review some patches =46urther steps =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * Discuss :-) And then apply this hard-won knowledge systematically. In particular I think it wouldn't hurt to keep the project proposals out of this thread until we have agreed on goals/standards to measure them against. * Does libgit2 want to remain under the Git umbrella, or participate on its own? * Figure out the wiki situation. In previous years the project proposals and other important information were hosted at k.org [5] an= d github wikis [6]. Other options were floated, such as an official wiki hosted by github. (This is somewhat of a contentious issue that spans beyond GSoC.) * Find an org admin and backup. In previous years Shawn and Peff did this. Would you do it again? * Gather a list of potential mentors. [1] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/216485 [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXP4CxUkBPSQ=E2=80=8E [3] http://googleblog.blogspot.ch/2013/10/50-million-lines-of-code-and= -counting.html [4] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/221159 [5] https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/SoC2011Projects similarly for previous years [6] https://github.com/peff/git/wiki/SoC-2012-Ideas https://github.com/trast/git/wiki/SoC-2013-Ideas --=20 Thomas Rast tr@thomasrast.ch