From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: David Kastrup Subject: Re: [OT] Re: C++ *for Git* Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:37:02 +0200 Message-ID: <85zlzdo3ch.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <46F5318A.4030103@krose.org> <877imishdp.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <46F55E03.2040404@krose.org> <5e4707340709221550o6d0a6062qd51c16a278727c29@mail.gmail.com> <20070923020951.GF24423@planck.djpig.de> <20070923062527.GA8979@old.davidb.org> <851wcpsv4z.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20070923104525.GC7118@artemis.corp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: "Pierre Habouzit" , "Frank Lichtenheld" , "Alex Unleashed" , "Kyle Rose" , "Miles Bader" , "Dmitry Kakurin" , Git To: "Marco Costalba" X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Sun Sep 23 16:37:23 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.176.167]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IZSaG-0005sG-HE for gcvg-git-2@gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:37:20 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754040AbXIWOhO (ORCPT ); Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:37:14 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1754078AbXIWOhO (ORCPT ); Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:37:14 -0400 Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.42]:48344 "EHLO mail-in-02.arcor-online.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752371AbXIWOhM (ORCPT ); Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:37:12 -0400 Received: from mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.14]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5750285B4; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:37:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.42]) by mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D5E114ADC; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:37:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-000-085.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.0.85]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9708D36E862; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:37:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 8AD591C1F3DC; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:37:03 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Marco Costalba's message of "Sun\, 23 Sep 2007 15\:42\:05 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: "Marco Costalba" writes: > On 9/23/07, Pierre Habouzit wrote: >> > >> > Object oriented languages creates black boxes: that's the reason >> > why object oriented exsists and also the reason why Linus hates >> > it ;-) >> So please stop with this myth. And don't speak for people, I would >> be very surprised that Linus would dislike "black >> boxes". Abstractions are good, when used wisely, and I would be >> much surprised to see Linus pretend otherwise. > > From a Linus recent thread: > >>In other words, the only way to do good, efficient, and system-level >>and portable C++ ends up to limit yourself to all the things that >>are basically available in C. And limiting your project to C means >>that people don't screw that up, and also means that you get a lot >>of programmers that do actually understand low-level issues and >>don't screw things up with any idiotic "object model" crap. > > Perhaps I have misunderstood, but the idea I got is that for Linus > OO brings in more problems than what it tries to fix. I read that as OO bringing in more programmers capable of creating problems than those capable of fixing them. It is not the fault of OO in itself, but it is the bottom line that counts: if it draws the wrong audience for the wrong reasons, it better had great benefits to offset that. Not quite unsimilar with communism: the idea is great in principle, but the idea has no built-in self-check. Capitalism, in contrast, is a distasteful idea at its heart, but it is rooted soundly in individual egoism. Which does not make it any less distasteful, but at least it tends to work. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum