From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Junio C Hamano Subject: Re: Considering teaching plumbing to users harmful Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:53:55 -0700 Message-ID: <7vej5tknlo.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> References: <7vmykhpn6z.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> <7vk5flo0si.fsf@gitster.siamese.dyndns.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: git@vger.kernel.org To: Johannes Schindelin X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Thu Jul 17 08:55:04 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.176.167]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KJNOJ-0005Sk-84 for gcvg-git-2@gmane.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:55:03 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752334AbYGQGyD (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:54:03 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752722AbYGQGyD (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:54:03 -0400 Received: from a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com ([207.106.133.19]:49122 "EHLO sasl.smtp.pobox.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752239AbYGQGyB (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:54:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4AE269DD; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.com (ip68-225-240-77.oc.oc.cox.net [68.225.240.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a-sasl-fastnet.sasl.smtp.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B49EB269DB; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:53:57 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Johannes Schindelin's message of "Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:02:04 +0200 (CEST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: 22879D2C-53CD-11DD-81B9-CE28B26B55AE-77302942!a-sasl-fastnet.pobox.com Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: Johannes Schindelin writes: >> > However, my point was about telling users, especially new ones. >> >> Perhaps you did not read my first paragraph? > > Well, I did. Then perhaps I wasn't being clear, and I think we are saying the same thing. > Sure, advanced usage is nice, and often involves plumbing, especially for > scripting. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying actually is that these usage that _need_ to involve plumbing is not "advanced", but merely showing weakness of the current Porcelain. Fixing that would allow us move further away from having to resort to plumbing in our daily workflow. Perhaps our Porcelains already passed that point, in which case you do not have to touch the plumbing commands 99% of time during the day and you do not have to teach new people plumbing at all. I am agreeing that it would be a worthy goal to aim for -- I do not however think we are there yet.