* (no subject)
@ 2017-06-22 9:50 Jessie Hernandez
2017-06-22 12:48 ` your mail Simon Ruderich
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jessie Hernandez @ 2017-06-22 9:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: git
subscribe git
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 9:50 Jessie Hernandez
@ 2017-06-22 12:48 ` Simon Ruderich
2017-06-22 13:35 ` AW: " Patrick Lehmann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Simon Ruderich @ 2017-06-22 12:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jessie Hernandez; +Cc: git
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:50:01AM +0200, Jessie Hernandez wrote:
> subscribe git
You need to write to majordomo@vger.kernel.org (with subscribe
git in the body) to subscribe.
Regards
Simon
--
+ privacy is necessary
+ using gnupg http://gnupg.org
+ public key id: 0x92FEFDB7E44C32F9
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* AW: your mail
2017-06-22 12:48 ` your mail Simon Ruderich
@ 2017-06-22 13:35 ` Patrick Lehmann
2017-06-22 13:47 ` Simon Ruderich
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Lehmann @ 2017-06-22 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Simon Ruderich, Jessie Hernandez; +Cc: git@vger.kernel.org
But how can he write to the mailing list without a subscription?
Is this a security bug or is he already subscribed?
________________________________________
Von: git-owner@vger.kernel.org [git-owner@vger.kernel.org]" im Auftrag von "Simon Ruderich [simon@ruderich.org]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juni 2017 14:48
Bis: Jessie Hernandez
Cc: git@vger.kernel.org
Betreff: Re: your mail
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:50:01AM +0200, Jessie Hernandez wrote:
> subscribe git
You need to write to majordomo@vger.kernel.org (with subscribe
git in the body) to subscribe.
Regards
Simon
--
+ privacy is necessary
+ using gnupg http://gnupg.org
+ public key id: 0x92FEFDB7E44C32F9
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 13:35 ` AW: " Patrick Lehmann
@ 2017-06-22 13:47 ` Simon Ruderich
2017-06-22 13:55 ` AW: " Patrick Lehmann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Simon Ruderich @ 2017-06-22 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Patrick Lehmann; +Cc: Jessie Hernandez, git
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 01:35:33PM +0000, Patrick Lehmann wrote:
> But how can he write to the mailing list without a subscription?
> Is this a security bug or is he already subscribed?
Everybody can send to this mailing list. This is by design so
contributors/bug reporters can send mails without having to
subscribe.
Regards
Simon
--
+ Privatsphäre ist notwendig
+ Ich verwende GnuPG http://gnupg.org
+ Öffentlicher Schlüssel: 0x92FEFDB7E44C32F9
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* AW: your mail
2017-06-22 13:47 ` Simon Ruderich
@ 2017-06-22 13:55 ` Patrick Lehmann
2017-06-22 20:46 ` Simon Ruderich
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Lehmann @ 2017-06-22 13:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Simon Ruderich; +Cc: Jessie Hernandez, git@vger.kernel.org
The description on https://github.com/git/git doesn't reflect that policy.
a)
It explains that discussions take place in the mentioned mailing list.
b)
It describes how to subscribe.
With knowledge of other mailing lists (mostly managed by mailman),
subscription is required for participation.
________________________________________
Von: Simon Ruderich [simon@ruderich.org]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juni 2017 15:47
Bis: Patrick Lehmann
Cc: Jessie Hernandez; git@vger.kernel.org
Betreff: Re: your mail
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 01:35:33PM +0000, Patrick Lehmann wrote:
> But how can he write to the mailing list without a subscription?
> Is this a security bug or is he already subscribed?
Everybody can send to this mailing list. This is by design so
contributors/bug reporters can send mails without having to
subscribe.
Regards
Simon
--
+ Privatsphäre ist notwendig
+ Ich verwende GnuPG http://gnupg.org
+ Öffentlicher Schlüssel: 0x92FEFDB7E44C32F9
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 13:55 ` AW: " Patrick Lehmann
@ 2017-06-22 20:46 ` Simon Ruderich
2017-06-22 21:35 ` Junio C Hamano
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Simon Ruderich @ 2017-06-22 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Patrick Lehmann; +Cc: Jessie Hernandez, git@vger.kernel.org
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 01:55:27PM +0000, Patrick Lehmann wrote:
> The description on https://github.com/git/git doesn't reflect that policy.
>
> a)
> It explains that discussions take place in the mentioned mailing list.
> b)
> It describes how to subscribe.
However it doesn't say that you have to subscribe to send, only
how to subscribe.
> With knowledge of other mailing lists (mostly managed by mailman),
> subscription is required for participation.
That depends on the mailing list, some require subscription to
prevent spams but not all do.
Somebody might want to update the documentation, but personally
I see no reason to change anything. If you want to send a patch
to improve it, that would be great of course.
Regards
Simon
PS: Please don't top-post on this mailing list.
--
+ Privatsphäre ist notwendig
+ Ich verwende GnuPG http://gnupg.org
+ Öffentlicher Schlüssel: 0x92FEFDB7E44C32F9
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 20:46 ` Simon Ruderich
@ 2017-06-22 21:35 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-22 21:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Junio C Hamano @ 2017-06-22 21:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Simon Ruderich; +Cc: Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez, git@vger.kernel.org
Simon Ruderich <simon@ruderich.org> writes:
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 01:55:27PM +0000, Patrick Lehmann wrote:
>> The description on https://github.com/git/git doesn't reflect that policy.
>>
>> a)
>> It explains that discussions take place in the mentioned mailing list.
>> b)
>> It describes how to subscribe.
>
> However it doesn't say that you have to subscribe to send, only
> how to subscribe.
For that matter, we also say "everyone is welcome to post", which
makes it clear that no subscription is required.
But I view these merely being technically correct. And making it
absolutely obvious does not cost too much.
>> With knowledge of other mailing lists (mostly managed by mailman),
>> subscription is required for participation.
>
> That depends on the mailing list, some require subscription to
> prevent spams but not all do.
Yes. But not many people realize that the world they know is the
only world. We are used to an open list and are shocked when we
encouter a closed one; let's not forget that shock.
How about doing it like this?
README.md | 4 ++++
1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)
diff --git a/README.md b/README.md
index f17af66a97..bbaf54bffb 100644
--- a/README.md
+++ b/README.md
@@ -31,6 +31,10 @@ The user discussion and development of Git take place on the Git
mailing list -- everyone is welcome to post bug reports, feature
requests, comments and patches to git@vger.kernel.org (read
[Documentation/SubmittingPatches][] for instructions on patch submission).
+
+You can send messages without subscribing to the list, but it is
+recommended to read what other people are saying on the list before
+you speak.
To subscribe to the list, send an email with just "subscribe git" in
the body to majordomo@vger.kernel.org. The mailing list archives are
available at <https://public-inbox.org/git/>,
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 21:35 ` Junio C Hamano
@ 2017-06-22 21:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2017-06-22 22:14 ` Junio C Hamano
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason @ 2017-06-22 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Junio C Hamano
Cc: Simon Ruderich, Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez,
git@vger.kernel.org
On Thu, Jun 22 2017, Junio C. Hamano jotted:
> Simon Ruderich <simon@ruderich.org> writes:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 01:55:27PM +0000, Patrick Lehmann wrote:
>>> The description on https://github.com/git/git doesn't reflect that policy.
>>>
>>> a)
>>> It explains that discussions take place in the mentioned mailing list.
>>> b)
>>> It describes how to subscribe.
>>
>> However it doesn't say that you have to subscribe to send, only
>> how to subscribe.
>
> For that matter, we also say "everyone is welcome to post", which
> makes it clear that no subscription is required.
>
> But I view these merely being technically correct. And making it
> absolutely obvious does not cost too much.
>
>>> With knowledge of other mailing lists (mostly managed by mailman),
>>> subscription is required for participation.
>>
>> That depends on the mailing list, some require subscription to
>> prevent spams but not all do.
>
> Yes. But not many people realize that the world they know is the
> only world. We are used to an open list and are shocked when we
> encouter a closed one; let's not forget that shock.
>
> How about doing it like this?
>
> README.md | 4 ++++
> 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)
>
> diff --git a/README.md b/README.md
> index f17af66a97..bbaf54bffb 100644
> --- a/README.md
> +++ b/README.md
> @@ -31,6 +31,10 @@ The user discussion and development of Git take place on the Git
> mailing list -- everyone is welcome to post bug reports, feature
> requests, comments and patches to git@vger.kernel.org (read
> [Documentation/SubmittingPatches][] for instructions on patch submission).
> +
> +You can send messages without subscribing to the list, but it is
> +recommended to read what other people are saying on the list before
> +you speak.
> To subscribe to the list, send an email with just "subscribe git" in
> the body to majordomo@vger.kernel.org. The mailing list archives are
> available at <https://public-inbox.org/git/>,
It's unclear what that means. I *think* it means "consider taking a look
around the list before you post", but then it's probably better advice
to tell people to skim the archives first to get an idea of the traffic.
E.g. if I page through the first 2 pages of public-inbox.org I get
messages going back to the 19th, but if I were to subscribe to the list
I'd need to wait 4 days to get the same mail.
Which, in the context of what this follows (how to submit a bug,
questions etc.) isn't a good use of time for the person reading the
instructions.
Maybe something more like:
diff --git a/README.md b/README.md
index f17af66a97..dc175757fa 100644
--- a/README.md
+++ b/README.md
@@ -36,6 +36,12 @@ the body to majordomo@vger.kernel.org. The mailing list archives are
available at <https://public-inbox.org/git/>,
<http://marc.info/?l=git> and other archival sites.
+You don't need to be subscribed to the list to send mail to it, and
+others on-list will generally CC you when replying (although some
+forget this). It's adviced to subscribe to the list if you want to be
+sure you're not missing follow-up discussion, or if your interest in
+the project is wider than a one-off bug report, question or patch.
+
The maintainer frequently sends the "What's cooking" reports that
list the current status of various development topics to the mailing
list. The discussion following them give a good reference for
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 21:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
@ 2017-06-22 22:14 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-22 23:21 ` Jeff King
2017-06-23 6:58 ` demerphq
2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Junio C Hamano @ 2017-06-22 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
Cc: Simon Ruderich, Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez,
git@vger.kernel.org
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <avarab@gmail.com> writes:
> Maybe something more like:
Much better.
> diff --git a/README.md b/README.md
> index f17af66a97..dc175757fa 100644
> --- a/README.md
> +++ b/README.md
> @@ -36,6 +36,12 @@ the body to majordomo@vger.kernel.org. The mailing list archives are
> available at <https://public-inbox.org/git/>,
> <http://marc.info/?l=git> and other archival sites.
>
> +You don't need to be subscribed to the list to send mail to it, and
> +others on-list will generally CC you when replying (although some
> +forget this). It's adviced to subscribe to the list if you want to be
> +sure you're not missing follow-up discussion, or if your interest in
> +the project is wider than a one-off bug report, question or patch.
> +
> The maintainer frequently sends the "What's cooking" reports that
> list the current status of various development topics to the mailing
> list. The discussion following them give a good reference for
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 21:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2017-06-22 22:14 ` Junio C Hamano
@ 2017-06-22 23:21 ` Jeff King
2017-06-23 5:23 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-23 6:58 ` demerphq
2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jeff King @ 2017-06-22 23:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
Cc: Junio C Hamano, Simon Ruderich, Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez,
git@vger.kernel.org
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:58:08PM +0200, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> Which, in the context of what this follows (how to submit a bug,
> questions etc.) isn't a good use of time for the person reading the
> instructions.
>
> Maybe something more like:
>
> diff --git a/README.md b/README.md
> index f17af66a97..dc175757fa 100644
> --- a/README.md
> +++ b/README.md
> @@ -36,6 +36,12 @@ the body to majordomo@vger.kernel.org. The mailing list archives are
> available at <https://public-inbox.org/git/>,
> <http://marc.info/?l=git> and other archival sites.
>
> +You don't need to be subscribed to the list to send mail to it, and
> +others on-list will generally CC you when replying (although some
> +forget this). It's adviced to subscribe to the list if you want to be
> +sure you're not missing follow-up discussion, or if your interest in
> +the project is wider than a one-off bug report, question or patch.
> +
> The maintainer frequently sends the "What's cooking" reports that
> list the current status of various development topics to the mailing
> list. The discussion following them give a good reference for
You perhaps already read it, but you may want to steal wording or
suggestions from the mailing list section at:
https://git-scm.com/community
which is covering the same ideas (and vice versa, patches to that page
are welcome if the README says something better).
-Peff
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 23:21 ` Jeff King
@ 2017-06-23 5:23 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-23 16:53 ` Jeff King
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Junio C Hamano @ 2017-06-23 5:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jeff King
Cc: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Simon Ruderich,
Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez, git@vger.kernel.org
Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:
>> +You don't need to be subscribed to the list to send mail to it, and
>> +others on-list will generally CC you when replying (although some
>> +forget this). It's adviced to subscribe to the list if you want to be
>> +sure you're not missing follow-up discussion, or if your interest in
>> +the project is wider than a one-off bug report, question or patch.
>> +
>> The maintainer frequently sends the "What's cooking" reports that
>> list the current status of various development topics to the mailing
>> list. The discussion following them give a good reference for
>
> You perhaps already read it, but you may want to steal wording or
> suggestions from the mailing list section at:
>
> https://git-scm.com/community
>
> which is covering the same ideas (and vice versa, patches to that page
> are welcome if the README says something better).
OK, so... Ævar's version does not mention:
- text/plain, which is a very good addition.
- note about CC in a way as useful as the "community" page does,
which may want to steal from the latter.
- the archive, but it may not be needed in the context of this
document. "Read the archive to make sure you are not repeating
somebody else said before speaking" is something we silently wish
everybody to follow, but it is something we do not want to say
out loud, especially to new people.
- Windows, but I am not sure if it is necessary or even healthy.
One thing I would rather not to see is the Windows mailing list
becomes the first line triage place for any and all issues that
were experienced by a user who happened to be using Windows, and
majority of the issues turn out to be unspecific to Windows. I'd
suspect that all of us rather would want to see the referral go
the other way around.
Otoh, "community" page does not encourage subscription as a way to
ensure you'll see follow-up discussion, which may be a good thing to
add.
A tangent I just found funny is this paragraph on the "community"
page:
The archive can be found on public-inbox. Click here to
subscribe.
Of course clicking does not take you to a subscription page for
public-inbox, even though the two sentences appear to be related.
Perhaps swap the order of the two, like so, with a bit richer
explanation taken from Ævar's version:
... disable HTML in your outgoing messages.
By subscribing (click here), you can make sure you're not
missing follow-up discussion and also learn from other
development in the community. The list archive can be found
on public-inbox.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-22 21:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2017-06-22 22:14 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-22 23:21 ` Jeff King
@ 2017-06-23 6:58 ` demerphq
2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: demerphq @ 2017-06-23 6:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
Cc: Junio C Hamano, Simon Ruderich, Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez,
git@vger.kernel.org
On 22 June 2017 at 23:58, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <avarab@gmail.com> wrote:
> +You don't need to be subscribed to the list to send mail to it, and
> +others on-list will generally CC you when replying (although some
> +forget this). It's adviced to subscribe to the list if you want to be
FWIW: "adviced" is misspelled, it should be "advised", and IMO, it
feels like poor style to begin a sentence with a contraction. Not
strictly wrong, but sufficiently informal that I think it is out of
place in docs like this. Better to just say "It is", or even just "You
are", especially as you use "you" later in the sentence.
I actually think simplifying that sentence considerably is preferable:
"To be sure you receive all follow-up mails you should subscribe to the list."
flows better and is more succinct than
"It's advised to subscribe to the list if you want to be sure you're
not missing follow-up discussion".
> +sure you're not missing follow-up discussion, or if your interest in
> +the project is wider than a one-off bug report, question or patch.
cheers,
yves
--
perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-23 5:23 ` Junio C Hamano
@ 2017-06-23 16:53 ` Jeff King
2017-06-23 18:44 ` Junio C Hamano
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jeff King @ 2017-06-23 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Junio C Hamano
Cc: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Simon Ruderich,
Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez, git@vger.kernel.org
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:23:17PM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> Otoh, "community" page does not encourage subscription as a way to
> ensure you'll see follow-up discussion, which may be a good thing to
> add.
>
> A tangent I just found funny is this paragraph on the "community"
> page:
>
> The archive can be found on public-inbox. Click here to
> subscribe.
>
> Of course clicking does not take you to a subscription page for
> public-inbox, even though the two sentences appear to be related.
>
> Perhaps swap the order of the two, like so, with a bit richer
> explanation taken from Ævar's version:
>
> ... disable HTML in your outgoing messages.
>
> By subscribing (click here), you can make sure you're not
> missing follow-up discussion and also learn from other
> development in the community. The list archive can be found
> on public-inbox.
Yeah, I think that's a good suggestion. Do you want to phrase it in the
form of a patch? :)
-Peff
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: your mail
2017-06-23 16:53 ` Jeff King
@ 2017-06-23 18:44 ` Junio C Hamano
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Junio C Hamano @ 2017-06-23 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jeff King
Cc: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Simon Ruderich,
Patrick Lehmann, Jessie Hernandez, git@vger.kernel.org
Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:23:17PM -0700, Junio C Hamano wrote:
>
>> Otoh, "community" page does not encourage subscription as a way to
>> ensure you'll see follow-up discussion, which may be a good thing to
>> add.
>>
>> A tangent I just found funny is this paragraph on the "community"
>> page:
>>
>> The archive can be found on public-inbox. Click here to
>> subscribe.
>>
>> Of course clicking does not take you to a subscription page for
>> public-inbox, even though the two sentences appear to be related.
>>
>> Perhaps swap the order of the two, like so, with a bit richer
>> explanation taken from Ævar's version:
>>
>> ... disable HTML in your outgoing messages.
>>
>> By subscribing (click here), you can make sure you're not
>> missing follow-up discussion and also learn from other
>> development in the community. The list archive can be found
>> on public-inbox.
>
> Yeah, I think that's a good suggestion. Do you want to phrase it in the
> form of a patch? :)
OK. Letme try.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2017-06-23 18:44 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2017-06-22 9:50 Jessie Hernandez
2017-06-22 12:48 ` your mail Simon Ruderich
2017-06-22 13:35 ` AW: " Patrick Lehmann
2017-06-22 13:47 ` Simon Ruderich
2017-06-22 13:55 ` AW: " Patrick Lehmann
2017-06-22 20:46 ` Simon Ruderich
2017-06-22 21:35 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-22 21:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2017-06-22 22:14 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-22 23:21 ` Jeff King
2017-06-23 5:23 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-23 16:53 ` Jeff King
2017-06-23 18:44 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-06-23 6:58 ` demerphq
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