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[187.189.187.231]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x17sm881379otp.48.2021.07.02.15.31.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 02 Jul 2021 15:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 17:31:43 -0500 From: Felipe Contreras To: "Randall S. Becker" , 'Felipe Contreras' , 'martin' , 'Andreas Schwab' Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, =?UTF-8?B?J8OGdmFyIEFybmZqw7Zyw7AgQmphcm1hc29uJw==?= , 'Junio C Hamano' Message-ID: <60df93cfb0f44_28bb2084f@natae.notmuch> In-Reply-To: <03ce01d76f8d$b0cfa8b0$126efa10$@nexbridge.com> References: <20210702100506.1422429-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <20210702100506.1422429-6-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <871r8hauvi.fsf@igel.home> <60dee7d4e27bf_2964b20817@natae.notmuch> <65b1d215-c3ab-e0e3-f4ac-a30131541f9b@mfriebe.de> <60def07e686c7_7442083a@natae.notmuch> <3e82a574-fdcc-08b8-8fb5-1ff15f8ae564@mfriebe.de> <03a401d76f45$e1c6fce0$a554f6a0$@nexbridge.com> <60df7ee3128d6_28bb2086c@natae.notmuch> <03ce01d76f8d$b0cfa8b0$126efa10$@nexbridge.com> Subject: RE: [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Randall S. Becker wrote: > On July 2, 2021 5:02 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > >To: Randall S. Becker ; 'martin' ; 'Felipe Contreras' ; > >'Andreas Schwab' > >Cc: git@vger.kernel.org; '=C3=86var Arnfj=C3=B6r=C3=B0 Bjarmason' ; 'Junio C Hamano' > >Subject: RE: [PATCH 5/5] config: add default aliases > > > >Randall S. Becker wrote: > > > >> In my opinion, default aliases are not a good path. If a command is > >> intended to be part of the git command set, then it should be a > >> builtin not an alias. > > > >Commands cannot be overriden, aliases can. > > > >All SCM projects have aliases, except git. Why do you think that is? > = > I do not think my intent was conveyed. Default aliases made by the > product provider, regardless of who that is, are not a good path. Why? > If I was RCS, I would not make an alias that everyone had to take. Nobody has to take them. > Same for git. git has aliases, but they are for the user. If the > end-user team wants to implement a particular set of primitives for > their environment, that's fantastic, and entirely possible in git. But > I do not want to be constrained by someone else's primitives that are > not core product. Nobody is constrained. > >> Users have their own alias setups and implied conflicts are just goi= ng > >> to be confusing and end up in help, examples, presentations, and so > >> forth. > > > >There's no conflict. Either you use the alias or you don't. Just like = today. > = > Then what is the point of this? I want my aliases, not someone else's. Then use your aliases. This patch is not for you. > Again, if it is a core git alias, it is not an alias, it is a > supported command and I should see it in the git help -a output. A core git alias is an alias, and you will see them in the `git help -a` output, in the aliases section. > >> If you want a default alias set, publish it as part of an extension > >> set, like the bash-completion, so that the user has to take action t= o > >> install them in their environment. Do not do this in the base git > >> product by default. > > > >The whole point is to help users so they don't have to do extra config= urations. > = > The whole point is that a user team should give thought to the > functional extensions they want, as a team, which is where aliases > come in. Once again, this patch doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything. > We, as git contributors, should not be telling them what their extensio= ns are. We are not. > >Today git is pretty much unbearable without a configuration. Default a= liases would help quell some of that pain. > = > Git is entirely bearable particularly in my own pons and medulla. Good. But you are not the average user. > >> If I was a committer on this project, I would have to be much more > >> convinced that there is long-term value in this series than appears = on > >> the surface. > > > > 1. It doesn't affect anyone negatively > > 2. You don't have to use them if you don't want to 3. They don't aff= ect your aliases, even if they have the same name 4. Everyone has > >aliases 5. Every SCM in history has had aliases > > > >What more would you need? > > > >> I am sorry if I am coming across too strongly on this subject, but I= > >> do think we are overloading alias capability and intruding on a doma= in > >> that should be reserved for our users, not ourselves. > > > >But why? We provide plenty of defaults so that users don't have to con= figure git in order for the program to be useful. And we will > >continue to add more defaults. > = > I remain unconvinced and I found the assertion #5 somewhat specious > and incorrect. SCCS and RCS use Shell aliases. > There are no aliases in ClearCase. Yes there are [1]: checkout | co [ =E2=80=93res/erved ] [=E2=80=93unr/eserved [ =E2=80=93n= ma/ ster ] ] > Granted Perforce has them, but that is not a sufficient differentiator > to use that over git by any stretch. All the popular SCMs have them: * Mercurial * Subversion * CVS * Clearcase * Perforce > I've expressed my opinion, and it's not my decision to adopt this. So > whatever happens, as long as it does not pollute my community's > expectation of git. Although, providing aliases will handcuff future > command naming. That's not true. Nothing is handcuffed. [1] https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/rational-clearcase/9.0.0?topic=3Ducm-chec= kout -- = Felipe Contreras=