From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Stefano Lattarini Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] Move sequencer to builtin Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 01:40:06 +0200 Message-ID: <51B51256.5060602@gmail.com> References: <20130608164902.GA3109@elie.Belkin> <20130608173447.GA4381@elie.Belkin> <20130609014049.GA10375@google.com> <20130609052624.GB561@sigill.intra.peff.net> <20130609174049.GA1039@sigill.intra.peff.net> <20130609181002.GC810@sigill.intra.peff.net> <51B4F6CA.8020807@alum.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Johan Herland , Felipe Contreras , Jeff King , Jonathan Nieder , Duy Nguyen , Git Mailing List , Junio C Hamano , Brandon Casey , Ramkumar Ramachandra To: Michael Haggerty X-From: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Mon Jun 10 01:40:24 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org Received: from vger.kernel.org ([209.132.180.67]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UlpDi-0002yo-TP for gcvg-git-2@plane.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Jun 2013 01:40:23 +0200 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752480Ab3FIXkT (ORCPT ); Sun, 9 Jun 2013 19:40:19 -0400 Received: from mail-ea0-f180.google.com ([209.85.215.180]:47304 "EHLO mail-ea0-f180.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752415Ab3FIXkS (ORCPT ); Sun, 9 Jun 2013 19:40:18 -0400 Received: by mail-ea0-f180.google.com with SMTP id k10so5024981eaj.25 for ; Sun, 09 Jun 2013 16:40:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+yZiayWoMbWAAwJhRyDm/NlFy1VDFAriBRLAtk3qqBQ=; b=gyTCPvcygj5fj5NK3VC6G83Jdof0ju8lwaJRztatWRKcYCy25jx3LbLxQ8W7J+eczf U9RkTjKHu2gYNMEzheFRSt5oQmAbmUkEZYoUME7zW3E4f/EHZXgjs5GlyVtFR+y0yMeu cWbp3RG+IJzT9iEh2oj8e3lPuanpnfHUNC4fP68B/j9wQMMgcPZxJfvIecayb9wuJzH5 D16+WPzDdpJn9GvcpfgXLiuk1zzDyg9aKouK52JXNYrhBB5eTb2I6rEd7wdTlIZ+dWp0 mDxeDQJ+wbRnvt4NoFjxpbPnlBT2dxQiG5wsFxgcQ4eVjB9Hjndyfzw7vI2Ol0LSTbrE 7lSQ== X-Received: by 10.14.216.201 with SMTP id g49mr8177499eep.42.1370821216833; Sun, 09 Jun 2013 16:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (host93-95-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it. [79.6.95.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a5sm18869332ees.6.2013.06.09.16.40.14 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Jun 2013 16:40:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51B4F6CA.8020807@alum.mit.edu> Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Archived-At: [Sorry for the full quote, but sometimes, repetita iuvant] On 06/09/2013 11:42 PM, Michael Haggerty wrote: > On 06/09/2013 09:11 PM, Johan Herland wrote: >> [...] >> FWIW, I'd like to express my support for the opinions expressed by >> Jonathan, Jeff and Thomas. They accurately describe my impression of >> these discussion threads. > > I also agree. In my opinion, Felipe, your abrasiveness, your disregard > of project standards, and your eternal argumentativeness outweigh the > benefit of your contributions, large though they may be. > > Writing code is only a small part of keeping the Git project going. > > * Reviewing code is an essential, more thankless, and therefore more > precious, contribution. Therefore the Git project has standards to make > code review less unpleasant and more effective; for example: (1) patches > shouldn't cause regressions; (2) commit messages have to be written to > very high standards; (3) reviewers' comments should be accepted > gratefully and taken very seriously. Almost everybody in the Git > community accepts these standards. Felipe, you do not seem to. The > result is that reviewers' time and goodwill are wasted, and they > justifiably feel unvalued. We can't afford to misuse reviewers; they > are the bedrock (and the bottleneck) of the project. > > * Gaining and keeping contributors is important to maintaining the > success of the project. The mailing list is the main forum for the > development community; therefore, it is important that the mailing list > be a place where people display a high degree of technical excellence, > but also respect for one another, friendliness (or at least a lack of > hostility), and discussions that do turn into flame wars. It is > possible to have a profound technical disagreement without losing > respect for the other side; contrariwise it is NOT acceptable to twist a > technical disagreement into a personal attack, even by the slightest > insinuation. Felipe, in my opinion your participation in the mailing > list lowers the tone dramatically, and will result in loss of other > contributors and the failure to attract new contributors. > > Felipe, I wish that you would devote a small fraction of your prodigious > energy to the very difficult challenge of feeling empathy, > understanding, and respect for the other members of the community. But > if things continue the way they have, I personally would, with sadness > in my heart, prefer to forgo your patches in exchange for the more > important benefit of a more collegial (and therefore overall more > productive and sustainable) community. > > Michael > FWIW, from the meager but I hope not utterly irrelevant point of view of a non-contrib-but-not-clueless user as I am: *a complete and hear-felt +1 on what Michael said here* Until a couple of months ago, skimming this list was mostly a real pleasure, and would often give me some valuable insight on the upcoming features/incompatibilities of Git, help me organize my own workflow as a Git user, and also steadily improve my understanding and command of netiquette in both "generic" mailing lists and Open Source and/or Free Software communities. Now, when I open my mail and get to the "git" folder, I more and more end up asking myself: 1. "What kind of flame am I going to have to see today?"; and 2. "How much chaff will I have to navigate through to finally to get to interesting stuff (if any is actually left)?" *To reiterate:* Sadly, the environment of the Git mailing list has been steadily and slowly *sinking* -- sinking from being pleasant and useful and even "educational", into being annoying and frustrating and often somewhat toxic. I usually jeer and despise he who makes public accusations by simply adding his voice to the disapproval of the "community", but this time, I feel compelled to do exactly that: I do accuse Felipe's *attitude* to bring on and nourish such unpleasantness toxicity. His technical merits and the possible qualities of his patches do *nothing* to remove or quell such issues. Sorry for the extra potential controversy, but sometimes one has to speak up, Stefano