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[24.132.120.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id lv19sm3217865ejb.54.2021.11.08.12.23.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Nov 2021 12:23:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from avar by gmgdl with local (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1mkBAr-001FCu-Uv; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 21:23:25 +0100 From: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason To: Junio C Hamano Cc: Taylor Blau , Jeff King , git@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: move some test-tools to 'unstable plumbing' built-ins Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 21:19:10 +0100 References: <211106.86fss9hq3f.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> User-agent: Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid; Emacs 27.1; mu4e 1.6.6 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <211108.86zgqee6rm.gmgdl@evledraar.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 08 2021, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Taylor Blau writes: > >> In my experience I *rarely* rely on test-helpers when debugging wedged >> repositories, and much more often end up either in gdb, or in an >> anonymized copy of the repository on a different server. I would imagine >> that others have similar experiences. >> >> So unless we had a much more compelling reason to have the test helpers >> more readily available, I do not think that the risk our users will >> begin to depend on these unstable tools is worth taking. > > OK. It sounds like a sensible argument against such a change. It's an argument against not flipping "make installing them be optional" flag on by default, but we could otherwise move some of t/helper to builtin/, which would help by encouraging us to write at least boilerplate docs for them. Git developers & similar parties could then set them to be installed for ad-hoc debugging. Whatever anyone things on that, just on Taylor's "begin to depend on"... I really don't buy the argument that there's no amount of warnings in our documentation that we can include which would give us future license to willy-nilly change certain things. If that is being argued then that seems to categorically exclude certain other things, e.g. including "scalar" in-tree at all, because if we can't trust users to read the warnings about it being "contrib-y"...