git@vger.kernel.org mailing list mirror (one of many)
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: "SZEDER Gábor" <szeder.dev@gmail.com>
To: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
Cc: Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com>,
	Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, Denton Liu <liu.denton@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] MyFirstContribution: add avenues for getting help
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 00:40:27 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20191120234027.GP23183@szeder.dev> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.1911201222490.15956@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet>

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 12:41:56PM +0100, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> Hi Gábor,
> 
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, SZEDER Gábor wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 10:29:43PM +0100, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, SZEDER Gábor wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 01:45:19PM -0800, Emily Shaffer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I don't mind the idea of pushing folks to ask on the mentoring list
> > > > > first. It's pretty well attended already - just now I count 16 list
> > > > > members, a pretty significant majority of which are project veterans.
> > > > > I have no problem suggesting newbies ask their questions, which others
> > > > > probably had and solved before them, in a space separate from the main
> > > > > mailing list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course if you want to encourage newbies to ask in any of these
> > > > > three venues, weighted equally, I can change the language. But
> > > > > suggesting the main list as a last resort was intentional.
> > > >
> > > > git@vger is the ultimate source of all wisdom :) and it is openly
> > > > accessible for anyone for writing,
> > >
> > > ... except people with an @outlook.com address (all of their emails will
> > > bounce) and people who do not know how to suppress HTML in their emails
> > > (which I believe constitutes the vast majority)...

My interpretation of the above paragraph was that the "(which I
believe constitutes the vast majority)" part refers only to the
"people who do not know how to suppress HTML in their emails", but not
to the aforementioned "people with an @outlook.com address" (who had
their own subsentence in parentheses).

And with that statement in itself I completely agree: I would expect
that that "vast majority", i.e. the number of people who don't know
how to suppress HTML in their emails is in the billions, though I have
no data on that.

> > And I believe that that "vast majority" will never try to contribute
> > to Git, and thus doesn't matter.

I could have worded this more carefully, e.g. along the lines of:

  I believe that the vast majority of people will never contribute to
  Git anyway, therefore trying to give more weight to your argument
  with that "vast majority" doesn't make it any stronger.

> Yes, this is a tautology, because by that very expectation you make that
> happen. It's kind of a perfect example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Call it as you wish, I think it's simply inconceivable that the vast
majority of people will contribute to Git.


[Snipping the parts that appear to stem from the misunderstanding that
I tried to clarify above, in the hope that we can focus on the more
important point, which is:]


> > > > reading, and searching.

I would like to emphasize these last words of the sentence that was
cut in two so unfortunately, because I'm afraid that they didn't get
the attention they deserve although they are of fundamental
importance.

If someone reaches out to us with a problem, and we can provide a
solution, then it's best to have that solution openly accessible for
the benefit of everyone else.  IMO this far outweighs any issues with
HTML-formatted emails or @outlook.com email addresses, and on its own
justifies putting git@vger first.  That way even those who stop
reading at the first email address will choose what's most beneficial
for the greater good.  If someone for some reason still prefers
otherwise and/or due to some technical limitation can't post to
git@vger, then they could still consider the other two venues.

> > > > Therefore these three venues cannot be weighted
> > > > equally, but git@vger should be the explicitly preferred venue.  Only if
> > > > the newbie has some other preferences should the other two be
> > > > considered; e.g. if more interactive, chatty communication is preferred,
> > > > then try #git-devel.

  reply	other threads:[~2019-11-20 23:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-11-15 21:53 [PATCH] MyFirstContribution: add avenues for getting help Emily Shaffer
2019-11-15 22:05 ` Denton Liu
2019-11-15 23:03   ` Emily Shaffer
2019-11-15 23:06 ` [PATCH v2] " Emily Shaffer
2019-11-15 23:38   ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-16  0:09   ` Jonathan Nieder
2019-11-16  3:05   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-18 21:45     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-11-19  1:45       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-19 18:49       ` SZEDER Gábor
2019-11-19 21:29         ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-19 21:41           ` SZEDER Gábor
2019-11-20  1:50             ` Eric Wong
2019-11-20 11:41             ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-11-20 23:40               ` SZEDER Gábor [this message]
2019-11-20 10:45           ` Kerry, Richard
2019-11-20 11:37             ` Junio C Hamano
2019-11-19 18:25   ` SZEDER Gábor
2019-12-13  1:31   ` [PATCH v3] " Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  3:00     ` Derrick Stolee
2019-12-13  4:14       ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  4:16       ` [PATCH v4] " Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 17:20     ` [PATCH v3] " Junio C Hamano
2019-12-13 17:49       ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 18:40         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-24 20:09     ` [PATCH v5] " emilyshaffer
2020-01-24 20:35       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-24 20:50         ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24 20:54           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24 21:11           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-24 21:01       ` [PATCH v6] " Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24 21:18         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-24 21:20           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24 21:26         ` [PATCH v7] " Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24 21:56           ` SZEDER Gábor
2020-01-24 23:44             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-06  1:07               ` SZEDER Gábor
2020-02-06 16:33                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-06 19:49                   ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06 22:13                     ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  2:03                   ` [PATCH] MyFirstContribution: rephrase contact info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  2:10                     ` Jonathan Nieder
2020-02-14 17:36                       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-24 22:05           ` [PATCH v7] MyFirstContribution: add avenues for getting help Junio C Hamano

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20191120234027.GP23183@szeder.dev \
    --to=szeder.dev@gmail.com \
    --cc=Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de \
    --cc=emilyshaffer@google.com \
    --cc=git@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=gitster@pobox.com \
    --cc=liu.denton@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://80x24.org/mirrors/git.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).