Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com

Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com

[Emily Shaffer]

Hi all,

Since https://public-inbox.org/git/20191114023100.GD22855@google.com/ is
well hidden inside a large thread which diverged into many topics, I'm
happy to announce (redundantly) the creation of a git-mentoring mailing
list!

You can join the list to view messages and participate at
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/git-mentoring.

This list is a great place for those who are new to Git and interested
in learning how to contribute to ask questions and expect kind, thorough
answers out of the spotlight of the main Git mailing list. Use this list
to ask or answer specific questions you have about contributing to the
Git project; rather than pairing with a specific mentor who may not
share your timezone or vacation schedule, you can ask questions of the
mentoring list as a whole to receive answers from any volunteer who is
available.

The community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those
for the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can
join) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.

For now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -
but if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and
from the main list, we can change that permission as needed.

I look forward to us learning from each other on that list!

 - Emily

Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com

[Eric Wong]

Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:
> The community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those
> for the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can
> join) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.

It would be better to promote anonymous or pseudonymous posts
if beginners aren't comfortable...

> For now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -
> but if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and
> from the main list, we can change that permission as needed.

...because anybody can expose the archives, anyways.  And right now,
messages aren't visible to generic search engines, either; so fewer
people can get helped...

Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com

[Emily Shaffer]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:31:27PM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:
> Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:
> > The community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those
> > for the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can
> > join) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.
> 
> It would be better to promote anonymous or pseudonymous posts
> if beginners aren't comfortable...
> 
> > For now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -
> > but if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and
> > from the main list, we can change that permission as needed.
> 
> ...because anybody can expose the archives, anyways.  And right now,
> messages aren't visible to generic search engines, either; so fewer
> people can get helped...

Hm, this is a little circular, right? Part of the rationale for keeping
viewing limited was "that way it's not visible to generic search
engines". And now your rationale for opening it is "it's not visible to
generic search engines".

It sounds like based on
https://lore.kernel.org/git/xmqqy2wczliu.fsf@gitster-ct.c.googlers.com/
though, that we maybe do want to open posting to all, for the sake of CC
back and forth between the main list and the mentoring list.


With all that said.... we have yet to actually see a post on the list.
So I feel more inclined to wait and let the right ergonomics for that
list present themselves with time and use. :)

 - Emily

Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com

[Eric Wong]

Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 08:31:27PM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:
> > Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com> wrote:
> > > The community expectations for the mailing list are the same as those
> > > for the main Git list, but posts are only visible to members (anyone can
> > > join) in order to create a more private space for beginner questions.
> > 
> > It would be better to promote anonymous or pseudonymous posts
> > if beginners aren't comfortable...
> > 
> > > For now, posting is limited to members only (again, anyone can join) -
> > > but if we find a high incidence of needing to forward messages to and
> > > from the main list, we can change that permission as needed.
> > 
> > ...because anybody can expose the archives, anyways.  And right now,
> > messages aren't visible to generic search engines, either; so fewer
> > people can get helped...
> 
> Hm, this is a little circular, right? Part of the rationale for keeping
> viewing limited was "that way it's not visible to generic search
> engines".

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  My points were:

1) limiting visibility harmful to helpfulness

2) trusting "members" to keep potentially embarrasing posts
   away from the public eye is unrealistic.  Let posters
   maintain anonymity or pseudonymity for themselves.

Re: Announcing git-mentoring@googlegroups.com

[Jeff King]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 12:17:49AM +0000, Eric Wong wrote:

> > Hm, this is a little circular, right? Part of the rationale for keeping
> > viewing limited was "that way it's not visible to generic search
> > engines".
> 
> Sorry if I wasn't clear.  My points were:
> 
> 1) limiting visibility harmful to helpfulness
> 
> 2) trusting "members" to keep potentially embarrasing posts
>    away from the public eye is unrealistic.  Let posters
>    maintain anonymity or pseudonymity for themselves.

I think it's trying to find a tradeoff, though. The point isn't to guard
sensitive information. It's to have a less intimidating forum for people
to converse in. Even though anybody from the public _could_ join and
read them, keeping them out of most web searches may be more
comfortable. Likewise, members of the group _could_ exfiltrate all of
the posts and show them publicly. But in practice that's unlikely.

Note that I'm guessing at what others would find more comfortable or
less intimidating. Obviously I'm quite happy to speak my mind all over
public mailing lists. ;) But the point is to give a forum for people who
aren't. I think this setup matches the mentoring list in other orgs.
E.g. Outreachy itself, though there I think you have to actually be an
intern to see the posts. We could moderate membership to the mentor list
but it seems like a hassle for little gain.

-Peff