if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why

if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why

[_g e r r y _ _l o w r y _]

PREAMBLE [START] - please feel free to skip this first section

Forgive me for asking this question on a mailing list.

stackoverflow would probably kill such a question before the bits were fully saved to a server drive.

Let me explain why i am asking and why i am not being a troll.

[a] i'm "old school", i.e., > 50% on my way to being age 72 [born 1947]

[b] when i started programming in 1967, most of my work input was via punched cards

[c] punching my own cards was cool

[d] IBM System/360 mainframe assembler was cool and patching previously punched card encoded machine code output was a fun risky but
at times necessary challenge.

[e] using command windows and coding batch files for Gary Kildall's CP/M and the evil empire's PC/MS-DOS was how i accomplished many
tasks for early non-GUI environments (i still continue this practice even in Windows 10 (a.k.a. please don't update my PC O/S behind
my back again versions of MS Windows)).

[f] my introduction to Git was via a command line based awesome video that has disappeared (i asked this community about that in a
previous thread).

BOTTOM LINE:  virtually 100% of my Git use has been via Git Bash command line [probably downloaded from https://git-scm.com/]

For me, and i suspect even for most people who live with GUI platforms, [a well kept secret fact] using the keyboard is faster than
using the mouse [especially when one's fingers are already over one's keyboard-example, closing one or more "windows" via Alt+F4.

Also for me, i am happy to change some code and/or write some new code, Alt+Tab to Git Bash frequently, ADD/COMMIT, then Alt+Tab
back to whatever IDE i'm using [mostly LINQPad and vs2017]; i know that's quite a bit schizophrenic of me-command line Git but GUI
IDE.

PREAMBLE [END]
----------------------------------------

QUESTION:  if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why

i have been asked to look at GUI versions of Git for Windows.

https://git-scm.com/download/gui/windows currently lists 22 options.

if i had more time left in my life and the option, because of my own nature, i'd likely download and evaluate all 22 - Mr.T would
pity the fool that i often can be.

CAUTION:  i am not looking for anyone to disparage other Git Windows GUIs.

Let me break down the question into 4 parts:

[1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?
[1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?

[2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?
[2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?


if you are uncomfortable replying to git@vger.kernel.org please feel free to reply directly to my e-mail address.

i look forward to hearing from members of this Git community.

Thank you for reading and thank you for your valuable time.

gerry (lowry)-wasaga beach-ontario-canada
gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com

Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why

[Philip Oakley]

Hi Gerry,
I'll give my view, as someone approaching retirement, but who worked as 
an Engineer in a mainly Windows environment.

On 04/11/2018 17:48, _g e r r y _ _l o w r y _ wrote:
> PREAMBLE [START] - please feel free to skip this first section
> 
> Forgive me for asking this question on a mailing list.
> 
> stackoverflow would probably kill such a question before the bits were fully saved to a server drive.
> 
> Let me explain why i am asking and why i am not being a troll.
> 
> [a] i'm "old school", i.e., > 50% on my way to being age 72 [born 1947]

8 years behind..
> 
> [b] when i started programming in 1967, most of my work input was via punched cards
'69, at school, post/compile/run/wait for post; 1 week
  (Maths club)

> 
> [c] punching my own cards was cool
Pin punching individual chads ;-)

> 
> [d] IBM System/360 mainframe assembler was cool and patching previously punched card encoded machine code output was a fun risky but
> at times necessary challenge.
Eventually the 370 at university.

> 
> [e] using command windows and coding batch files for Gary Kildall's CP/M and the evil empire's PC/MS-DOS was how i accomplished many
> tasks for early non-GUI environments (i still continue this practice even in Windows 10 (a.k.a. please don't update my PC O/S behind
> my back again versions of MS Windows)).
Engineer in electronics; software was an interlinked part of electronics 
back then....
> 
> [f] my introduction to Git was via a command line based awesome video that has disappeared (i asked this community about that in a
> previous thread).
Discovered in 2011 via 'Code News' article - Spotted immediately that it 
solved the engineers version control issue because it 'distributed' the 
control. I've tried a few of the Gui's.

> 
> BOTTOM LINE:  virtually 100% of my Git use has been via Git Bash command line [probably downloaded from https://git-scm.com/]
> 
> For me, and i suspect even for most people who live with GUI platforms, [a well kept secret fact] using the keyboard is faster than
> using the mouse [especially when one's fingers are already over one's keyboard-example, closing one or more "windows" via Alt+F4.
> 
> Also for me, i am happy to change some code and/or write some new code, Alt+Tab to Git Bash frequently, ADD/COMMIT, then Alt+Tab
> back to whatever IDE i'm using [mostly LINQPad and vs2017]; i know that's quite a bit schizophrenic of me-command line Git but GUI
> IDE.
> 
> PREAMBLE [END]
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> QUESTION:  if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why
> 
> i have been asked to look at GUI versions of Git for Windows.
I presume that this is for a client who isn't sure what they want 
http://www.abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com/home.html

> 
> https://git-scm.com/download/gui/windows currently lists 22 options.
That's nearly as bad as choosing a Linux distro ;-)

> 
> if i had more time left in my life and the option, because of my own nature, i'd likely download and evaluate all 22 - Mr.T would
> pity the fool that i often can be.
> 
> CAUTION:  i am not looking for anyone to disparage other Git Windows GUIs.
> 
> Let me break down the question into 4 parts:
> 
> [1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?
I use the three parts provided as part of regular Git and Git for 
Windows, that is git-gui, gitk and git cli in a terminal (mintty)

> [1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?
I have been in a general Windows environment for decades. The Gui format 
with single buttons/drop downs that do one thing well, without finger 
trouble side effects, is good in such environments. One cannot be master 
of everything.

The cli is good for specialists and special actions, especially 
precision surgery. The key is to avoid the "the surgery was a success 
but the patient died" results.
> 
> [2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?
git-gui and gitk are now the only two I use.

> [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?
Many of the other Gui's hide the power of Git and its new abstraction of 
no longer actually being about "Control" (by 'management'). Now it is 
about veracity. If you have the right object ID (sha1/sha256) you have 
an identical original [there are no 'copies', all Mona Lisas with the 
hash are the same]. Management can choose which hash to accept upstream.

Most other Gui's try to hide behind the old school Master-copy view 
point that was developed in the 19th century for drawing office control. 
If you damaged the master drawing the ability to make things and do 
business was lost. Protecting the master drawing was everything. They 
were traced before they went to the blue print machine. Changes were 
batched up before the master could be touched (that risk again).

Too may Gui's (and their Managements!) still try to work the old way, 
loosing all the potential benefits. They are still hammer wielders 
looking for nails, and only finding screws to smash.

I've heard reasonable things about SmartGit but that costs money so I 
haven't tried it. I tried TortoiseGit and GitExtensions, but gave up on 
them as they would (to me) hide the real operations behind old concepts.

The one are that could be improved is having manuals for the two guis, 
and a better explanation, with practical examples, for the gitk viewer, 
which has far more power than I have fully delved into.

Ultimately it is a management problem. As a systems engineer, what needs 
to be researched is the mind set - weltanschauung of the client, their 
management style and its operations.

See the recent discussion with Nicolas Mailhot 
https://public-inbox.org/git/1290947539.4254.1508496039812.JavaMail.zimbra@laposte.net/ 
on the release management issue
> 
> 
> if you are uncomfortable replying to git@vger.kernel.org please feel free to reply directly to my e-mail address.
> 
> i look forward to hearing from members of this Git community.
> 
> Thank you for reading and thank you for your valuable time.
> 
> gerry (lowry)-wasaga beach-ontario-canada
> gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com
> 

Education is the answer, especially for the lower quartile.
Kruger & Dunning. "Unskilled and unaware of it" 1999.

-- 
Philip

Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why

[David Aguilar]

On Mon, Nov 05, 2018 at 12:26:08PM +0000, Philip Oakley wrote:
> > [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?
> Many of the other Gui's hide the power of Git and its new abstraction of no
> longer actually being about "Control" (by 'management'). Now it is about
> veracity. If you have the right object ID (sha1/sha256) you have an
> identical original [there are no 'copies', all Mona Lisas with the hash are
> the same]. Management can choose which hash to accept upstream.
> 
> Most other Gui's try to hide behind the old school Master-copy view point
> that was developed in the 19th century for drawing office control. If you
> damaged the master drawing the ability to make things and do business was
> lost. Protecting the master drawing was everything. They were traced before
> they went to the blue print machine. Changes were batched up before the
> master could be touched (that risk again).
> 
> Too may Gui's (and their Managements!) still try to work the old way,
> loosing all the potential benefits. They are still hammer wielders looking
> for nails, and only finding screws to smash.

Hello,

Here are a few reasons why you should try Git Cola:

- Git Cola does not hide the power of Git.

- Git Cola extends Git in the UNIX spirit by providing a convenient
  frontend to common Git commands and operations.

- Git Cola's Diff editor is focused around the Git-centric idea of
  creating small commits through partial staging.

- It has a keyboard-centric interface with vim-style navigation hotkeys.

- Git Cola is Free software and has the same license as Git.

- Python + Qt is easy to hack

https://github.com/git-cola/git-cola

https://git-cola.github.io/downloads.html
-- 
David

Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why

[Jakub Narebski]

"_g e r r y _ _l o w r y _"
<gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com> writes:

> ----------------------------------------
>
> QUESTION:  if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why
>
> i have been asked to look at GUI versions of Git for Windows.
>
> https://git-scm.com/download/gui/windows currently lists 22 options.
>
> if i had more time left in my life and the option, because of my own
> nature, i'd likely download and evaluate all 22 - Mr.T would
> pity the fool that i often can be.
>
> CAUTION:  i am not looking for anyone to disparage other Git Windows GUIs.
>
> Let me break down the question into 4 parts:
>
> [1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?
> [1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?
>
> [2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?
> [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?

I use both Git GUI and Git command line - but for different things.  I
use integration with editor / IDE (in my case GNU Emacs and Magit, plus
git-gutter+) to commit changes, amend commits, sometimes for push and
pull; and for having constant reminder which files changed and/or which
lines changed.

I use Git command line for more advanced stuff, mostly because I am used
to it.  Things like interactive rebase, fetch, pull, push, stash and
unstash, undoing changes via reflog, submodules stuff, etc.

I found that with Git GUI (to be more exact git-gui from Git) it is
easier to do incremental add / incremental commit from GUI.  If you use
`git blame`, I highly recommend `git gui blame`.

Hope that helps,
--
Jakub Narębski

Re: if YOU use a Windows GUI for Git, i would appreciate knowing which one and why

[Martin Langhoff]

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 2:34 PM _g e r r y _ _l o w r y _
<gerry.lowry@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com> wrote:
>
> [1a] Which do you prefer:  Git GUI, Git command line?


git cli

>
> [1b] What is your reason for your [1a] preference?


I'm a cli guy, I know git well, and it gives me all the power.

However, understanding history/branch structure is not something you
can do well with the cli tools (git log has an ascii art branch mode
that works for some situations).

For a number of reasons, I often find myself looking at new codebases,
and wondering how they got to where they are. Visualizing and querying
history is a killer feature for me.

> [2a] if applicable, which Git GUI do you prefer?


gitk ; if not available, whatever I can install quickly that (a) I can
just start in a checkout and (b) has a good branch history view. In
other words, the more they resemble gitk the more I like them :-)

> [2b] What is your reason for your [2a] preference?


Best for navigating history, complex branch/merge patterns. Handy
search including pickaxe.

It doesn't support the "normal" workflows. It's just an outstanding
complement for the cli tools.

cheers,


m