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From: Edward Thomson <ethomson@edwardthomson.com>
To: "brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net>,
	Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org,
	Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>,
	demerphq <demerphq@gmail.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Adam Langley <agl@google.com>,
	The Keccak Team <keccak@noekeon.org>
Subject: Re: Hash algorithm analysis
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:01:36 +0000
Message-ID: <20180724190136.GA5@0f3cdde9c159> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180720215220.GB18502@genre.crustytoothpaste.net>

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 09:52:20PM +0000, brian m. carlson wrote:
> 
> To summarize the discussion that's been had in addition to the above,
> Ævar has also stated a preference for SHA-256 and I would prefer BLAKE2b
> over SHA-256 over SHA3-256, although any of them would be fine.
> 
> Are there other contributors who have a strong opinion?  Are there
> things I can do to help us coalesce around an option?

Overall, I prefer SHA-256.

I mentioned this at the contributor summit - so this may have been
captured in the notes.  But if not, when I look at this from the
perspective of my day job at Notorious Big Software Company, we would
prefer SHA-256 due to its performance characteristics and the
availability of hardware acceleration.  We think about git object ids
in a few different ways:

Obviously we use git as a version control system - we have a significant
investment in hosting repositories (for both internal Microsoft teams
and our external customers).  What may be less obvious is that often,
git blob ids are used as fingerprints: on a typical Windows machine,
you don't have the command-line hash functions (md5sum and friends),
but every developer has git installed.  So we end up calculating git
object ids in places within the development pipeline that are beyond the
scope of just version control.  Not to dwell too much on implementation
details, but this is especially advantageous for us in (say) labs where
we can ensure that particular hardware is available to speed this up as
necessary.

Switching gears, if I look at this from the perspective of the libgit2
project, I would also prefer SHA-256 or SHA3 over blake2b.  To support
blake2b, we'd have to include - and support - that code ourselves.  But
to support SHA-256, we would simply use the system's crypto libraries
that we already take a dependecy on (OpenSSL, mbedTLS, CryptoNG, or
SecureTransport).  All of those support SHA-256 and none of them include
support for blake2b.  That means if there's a problem with (say)
OpenSSL's SHA-256 implementation, then it will be fixed by their vendor.
If there's a problem with libb2, then that's now my responsibility.

This is not to suggest that one library is of higher or lower quality
than another.  And surely we would try to use the same blake2b library
that git itself is using to minimize some of this risk (so that at least
we're all in the same boat and can leverage each other's communications
to users) but even then, there will be inevitable drift between our
vendored dependencies and the upstream code.  You can see this in action
in xdiff: git's xdiff has deviated from upstream, and libgit2 has taken
git's and ours has deviated from that.

Cheers-
-ed

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-09 20:56 State of NewHash work, future directions, and discussion brian m. carlson
2018-06-09 21:26 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-06-09 22:49 ` Hash algorithm analysis brian m. carlson
2018-06-11 19:29   ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-06-11 20:20     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-06-11 23:27       ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-06-12  0:11         ` David Lang
2018-06-12  0:45         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-06-11 22:35     ` brian m. carlson
2018-06-12 16:21       ` Gilles Van Assche
2018-06-13 23:58         ` brian m. carlson
2018-06-15 10:33           ` Gilles Van Assche
2018-07-20 21:52     ` brian m. carlson
2018-07-21  0:31       ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-07-21 19:52       ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-07-21 20:25         ` brian m. carlson
2018-07-21 22:38       ` Johannes Schindelin
2018-07-21 23:09         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-21 23:59         ` brian m. carlson
2018-07-22  9:34           ` Eric Deplagne
2018-07-22 14:21             ` brian m. carlson
2018-07-22 14:55               ` Eric Deplagne
2018-07-26 10:05                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2018-07-22 15:23           ` Joan Daemen
2018-07-22 18:54             ` Adam Langley
2018-07-26 10:31             ` Johannes Schindelin
2018-07-23 12:40           ` demerphq
2018-07-23 12:48             ` Sitaram Chamarty
2018-07-23 12:55               ` demerphq
2018-07-23 18:23               ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-23 17:57             ` Stefan Beller
2018-07-23 18:35             ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-07-24 19:01       ` Edward Thomson [this message]
2018-07-24 20:31         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-24 20:49           ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-07-24 21:13           ` Junio C Hamano
2018-07-24 22:10             ` brian m. carlson
2018-07-30  9:06               ` Johannes Schindelin
2018-07-30 20:01                 ` Dan Shumow
2018-08-03  2:57                   ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-09-18 15:18                   ` Joan Daemen
2018-09-18 15:32                     ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-09-18 16:50                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-25  8:30             ` [PATCH 0/2] document that NewHash is now SHA-256 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-07-25  8:30             ` [PATCH 1/2] doc hash-function-transition: note the lack of a changelog Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-07-25  8:30             ` [PATCH 2/2] doc hash-function-transition: pick SHA-256 as NewHash Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-07-25 16:45               ` Junio C Hamano
2018-07-25 17:25                 ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-07-25 21:32                   ` Junio C Hamano
2018-07-26 13:41                     ` [PATCH v2 " Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-08-03  7:20                       ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-08-03 16:40                         ` Junio C Hamano
2018-08-03 17:01                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-08-03 16:42                         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-08-03 17:43                         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-08-04  8:52                           ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-08-03 17:45                         ` brian m. carlson
2018-07-25 22:56                 ` [PATCH " brian m. carlson
2018-06-11 21:19   ` Hash algorithm analysis Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2018-06-21  8:20     ` Johannes Schindelin
2018-06-21 22:39     ` brian m. carlson
2018-06-11 18:09 ` State of NewHash work, future directions, and discussion Duy Nguyen
2018-06-12  1:28   ` brian m. carlson
2018-06-11 19:01 ` Jonathan Nieder
2018-06-12  2:28   ` brian m. carlson
2018-06-12  2:42     ` Jonathan Nieder

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