From: Eric Deplagne <Eric@Deplagne.name> To: "brian m. carlson" <email@example.com>, Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>, Jonathan Nieder <firstname.lastname@example.org>, email@example.com, demerphq <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Linus Torvalds <email@example.com>, Adam Langley <firstname.lastname@example.org>, The Keccak Team <email@example.com> Subject: Re: Hash algorithm analysis Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2018 11:34:42 +0200 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20180722093442.GK11431@mail.eric.deplagne.name> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20180721235941.GG18502@genre.crustytoothpaste.net> [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3516 bytes --] On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 23:59:41 +0000, brian m. carlson wrote: > On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 12:38:41AM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote: > > Do you really want to value contributors' opinion more than > > cryptographers'? I mean, that's exactly what got us into this hard-coded > > SHA-1 mess in the first place. > > I agree (believe me, of all people, I agree) that hard-coding SHA-1 was > a bad choice in retrospect. But I've solicited contributors' opinions > because the Git Project needs to make a decision *for this project* > about the algorithm we're going to use going forward. > > > And to set the record straight: I do not have a strong preference of the > > hash algorithm. But cryprographers I have the incredible luck to have > > access to, by virtue of being a colleague, did mention their preference. > > I don't know your colleagues, and they haven't commented here. One > person that has commented here is Adam Langley. It is my impression > (and anyone is free to correct me if I'm incorrect) that he is indeed a > cryptographer. To quote him: > > I think this group can safely assume that SHA-256, SHA-512, BLAKE2, > K12, etc are all secure to the extent that I don't believe that making > comparisons between them on that axis is meaningful. Thus I think the > question is primarily concerned with performance and implementation > availability. > > […] > > So, overall, none of these choices should obviously be excluded. The > considerations at this point are not cryptographic and the tradeoff > between implementation ease and performance is one that the git > community would have to make. Am I completely out of the game, or the statement that "the considerations at this point are not cryptographic" is just the wrongest ? I mean, if that was true, would we not be sticking to SHA1 ? > I'm aware that cryptographers tend to prefer algorithms that have been > studied longer over ones that have been studied less. They also prefer > algorithms built in the open to ones developed behind closed doors. > > SHA-256 has the benefit that it has been studied for a long time, but it > was also designed in secret by the NSA. SHA3-256 was created with > significant study in the open, but is not as mature. BLAKE2b has been > incorporated into standards like Argon2, but has been weakened slightly > for performance. > > I'm not sure that there's a really obvious choice here. > > I'm at the point where to continue the work that I'm doing, I need to > make a decision. I'm happy to follow the consensus if there is one, but > it does not appear that there is. > > I will admit that I don't love making this decision by myself, because > right now, whatever I pick, somebody is going to be unhappy. I want to > state, unambiguously, that I'm trying to make a decision that is in the > interests of the Git Project, the community, and our users. > > I'm happy to wait a few more days to see if a consensus develops; if so, > I'll follow it. If we haven't come to one by, say, Wednesday, I'll make > a decision and write my patches accordingly. The community is free, as > always, to reject my patches if taking them is not in the interest of > the project. > >  https://public-inbox.org/git/CAL9PXLzhPyE+geUdcLmd=pidT5P8eFEBbSgX_dS88knz2q_LSw@mail.gmail.com/ > -- > brian m. carlson: Houston, Texas, US > OpenPGP: https://keybase.io/bk2204 -- Eric Deplagne [-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-07-22 10:10 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2018-06-09 20:56 State of NewHash work, future directions, and discussion brian m. carlson 2018-06-09 21:26 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-06-09 22:49 ` Hash algorithm analysis brian m. carlson 2018-06-11 19:29 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-06-11 20:20 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-06-11 23:27 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-06-12 0:11 ` David Lang 2018-06-12 0:45 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-06-11 22:35 ` brian m. carlson 2018-06-12 16:21 ` Gilles Van Assche 2018-06-13 23:58 ` brian m. carlson 2018-06-15 10:33 ` Gilles Van Assche 2018-07-20 21:52 ` brian m. carlson 2018-07-21 0:31 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-07-21 19:52 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-07-21 20:25 ` brian m. carlson 2018-07-21 22:38 ` Johannes Schindelin 2018-07-21 23:09 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-07-21 23:59 ` brian m. carlson 2018-07-22 9:34 ` Eric Deplagne [this message] 2018-07-22 14:21 ` brian m. carlson 2018-07-22 14:55 ` Eric Deplagne 2018-07-26 10:05 ` Johannes Schindelin 2018-07-22 15:23 ` Joan Daemen 2018-07-22 18:54 ` Adam Langley 2018-07-26 10:31 ` Johannes Schindelin 2018-07-23 12:40 ` demerphq 2018-07-23 12:48 ` Sitaram Chamarty 2018-07-23 12:55 ` demerphq 2018-07-23 18:23 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-07-23 17:57 ` Stefan Beller 2018-07-23 18:35 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-07-24 19:01 ` Edward Thomson 2018-07-24 20:31 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-07-24 20:49 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-07-24 21:13 ` Junio C Hamano 2018-07-24 22:10 ` brian m. carlson 2018-07-30 9:06 ` Johannes Schindelin 2018-07-30 20:01 ` Dan Shumow 2018-08-03 2:57 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-09-18 15:18 ` Joan Daemen 2018-09-18 15:32 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-09-18 16:50 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-07-25 8:30 ` [PATCH 0/2] document that NewHash is now SHA-256 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-07-25 8:30 ` [PATCH 1/2] doc hash-function-transition: note the lack of a changelog Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-07-25 8:30 ` [PATCH 2/2] doc hash-function-transition: pick SHA-256 as NewHash Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-07-25 16:45 ` Junio C Hamano 2018-07-25 17:25 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-07-25 21:32 ` Junio C Hamano 2018-07-26 13:41 ` [PATCH v2 " Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-08-03 7:20 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-08-03 16:40 ` Junio C Hamano 2018-08-03 17:01 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-08-03 16:42 ` Linus Torvalds 2018-08-03 17:43 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-08-04 8:52 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-08-03 17:45 ` brian m. carlson 2018-07-25 22:56 ` [PATCH " brian m. carlson 2018-06-11 21:19 ` Hash algorithm analysis Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 2018-06-21 8:20 ` Johannes Schindelin 2018-06-21 22:39 ` brian m. carlson 2018-06-11 18:09 ` State of NewHash work, future directions, and discussion Duy Nguyen 2018-06-12 1:28 ` brian m. carlson 2018-06-11 19:01 ` Jonathan Nieder 2018-06-12 2:28 ` brian m. carlson 2018-06-12 2:42 ` Jonathan Nieder
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