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From: "brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net>
To: Jeff King <peff@peff.net>
Cc: "Stefan Beller" <sbeller@google.com>,
	"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>,
	"Brandon Williams" <bmwill@google.com>,
	"git@vger.kernel.org" <git@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] clang-format: outline the git project's coding style
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 00:40:36 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170815004036.m5ejio6gdyvu6e6a@genre.crustytoothpaste.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170809231900.3535ja3zqdvyerv4@sigill.intra.peff.net>

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On Wed, Aug 09, 2017 at 07:19:00PM -0400, Jeff King wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 09, 2017 at 03:53:17PM -0700, Stefan Beller wrote:
> 
> > >> Right, the reason I stopped pursuing it was that I couldn't find a way
> > >> to have it make suggestions for new code without nagging about existing
> > >> code. If we were to aggressively reformat to match the tool for existing
> > >> code, that would help. But I'm a bit worried that there would always be
> > >> suggestions from the tool that we don't agree with (i.e., where the
> > >> guiding principle is "do what is readable").
> > 
> > We may have different opinions on what is readable/beautiful code.
> > If we were to follow a mutual agreed style that is produced by a tool,
> > we could use clean/smudge filters with different settings each.
> 
> I'm less worried about a difference of opinion between humans. My
> concern is that there are cases that the tool's formatting makes _worse_
> than what any human would write. And either we accept ugly code because
> the tool sucks, or we spend a bunch of time fighting with the tool to
> try to make its output look good.

This has been my issue with clang-format in the past.  I have an SHA-256
implementation with an array of 64 32-bit hex integers.  These fit six
to a line, but for neatness and consistency reasons, I'd like them four
to a line (4 divides 64, but 6 does not).  Last I checked, clang-format
didn't allow me that option: it reordered them because it could fit six
on a line.  This is not the only issue I discovered, just the most
memorable.

Other tools, such as perltidy, have traditionally honored existing line
breaks better (although not perfectly), which lets humans optimize for
readability.

Of course, clang-format could have dramatically improved since I last
looked (which was around clang 3.4 or 3.6, I think).

Overall, I do like the idea of using tidy tools, because it does reduce
quibbling over style quite a bit.  I just like the tools to be more
responsive to the whitespace they're given on input.
-- 
brian m. carlson / brian with sandals: Houston, Texas, US
https://www.crustytoothpaste.net/~bmc | My opinion only
OpenPGP: https://keybase.io/bk2204

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  reply	other threads:[~2017-08-15  0:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-08  1:25 [RFC] clang-format: outline the git project's coding style Brandon Williams
2017-08-08 12:05 ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-08-08 17:40   ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-08 18:23     ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-09 22:33       ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-08-09 22:42         ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-10  9:38           ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-08-10 16:41             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-10 17:15               ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-10 17:28                 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-10 21:30                   ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-11 20:06                     ` Ben Peart
2017-08-14 15:52               ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-09-28 11:41         ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-09-28 17:16           ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-08 17:45 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-08 18:03   ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-08 18:25     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-09  7:05       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-11 17:49         ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-11 19:00           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-09 13:01 ` Jeff King
2017-08-09 14:03   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2017-08-09 22:53     ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-09 23:11       ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-11 17:52         ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-11 21:18           ` Jeff King
2017-08-12  4:39             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-13  4:41               ` Jeff King
2017-08-13 16:14                 ` Ramsay Jones
2017-08-13 16:36                   ` Ramsay Jones
2017-08-13 17:33                   ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-13 19:17                     ` Ramsay Jones
2017-08-09 23:19       ` Jeff King
2017-08-15  0:40         ` brian m. carlson [this message]
2017-08-15  1:03           ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-08-14 21:30 ` [PATCH v2 0/2] clang-format Brandon Williams
2017-08-14 21:30   ` [PATCH v2 1/2] clang-format: outline the git project's coding style Brandon Williams
2017-08-14 22:02     ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-15 13:56       ` Ben Peart
2017-08-15 17:37         ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-14 22:48     ` Jeff King
2017-08-14 22:51       ` Jeff King
2017-08-14 22:54         ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-14 23:01           ` Jeff King
2017-08-16 12:18             ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-08-15 14:28     ` Ben Peart
2017-08-15 17:34       ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-15 17:41         ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-14 21:30   ` [PATCH v2 2/2] Makefile: add style build rule Brandon Williams
2017-08-14 21:53     ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-14 22:25     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-14 22:28       ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-14 22:57         ` Jeff King
2017-08-14 23:29           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-14 23:47             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-15  0:05               ` Brandon Williams
2017-08-15  1:52               ` Jeff King
2017-08-14 21:32   ` [PATCH v2 0/2] clang-format Brandon Williams
2017-08-14 23:06   ` Jeff King
2017-08-14 23:15     ` Stefan Beller
2017-08-15  1:47       ` Jeff King
2017-08-15  3:03         ` Junio C Hamano
2017-08-15  3:38           ` Jeff King

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