git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Eric Blake]

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[raising this UI wart to the git list]

On 01/11/2013 01:42 AM, Peter Krempa wrote:
> On 01/11/13 07:31, Chunyan Liu wrote:
>> This patch series is to...
[snip]

> 
> Please don't answer "y" when git send email shows the following prompt:
> 
> "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
> 
> you should respond with a message ID there. Unfortunately we have a
> growing thread that contains submissions with this mistake.

Anyone willing to patch upstream 'git send-email' to reject a simple 'y'
rather than blindly sending a bad messageID for the in-reply-to field,
to help future users avoid this mistake?  Obviously, it won't help until
the patch eventually percolates into distros, so it would be a few more
months before we see the benefits, but down the road it will prevent
confusing threads.

-- 
Eric Blake   eblake redhat com    +1-919-301-3266
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org


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Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Jeff King]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 09:39:06AM -0700, Eric Blake wrote:

> > Please don't answer "y" when git send email shows the following prompt:
> > 
> > "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
> > 
> > you should respond with a message ID there. Unfortunately we have a
> > growing thread that contains submissions with this mistake.
> 
> Anyone willing to patch upstream 'git send-email' to reject a simple 'y'
> rather than blindly sending a bad messageID for the in-reply-to field,
> to help future users avoid this mistake?  Obviously, it won't help until
> the patch eventually percolates into distros, so it would be a few more
> months before we see the benefits, but down the road it will prevent
> confusing threads.

What version of git? Commit 51bbccf is in v1.7.12.1 and higher, and
says:

  $ git show 51bbccf
  commit 51bbccfd1b4a9e2807413022c56ab05c835164fb
  Author: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
  Date:   Tue Aug 14 15:15:53 2012 -0700

  send-email: validate & reconfirm interactive responses

  People answer 'y' to "Who should the emails appear to be from?"  and
  'n' to "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
  for some unknown reason.  While it is possible that your local
  username really is "y" and you are sending the mail to your local
  colleagues, it is possible, and some might even say it is likely,
  that it is a user error.

  Fortunately, our interactive prompter already has input validation
  mechanism built-in.  Enhance it so that we can optionally reconfirm
  and allow the user to pass an input that does not validate, and
  "softly" require input to the sender, in-reply-to, and recipient to
  contain "@" and "." in this order, which would catch most cases of
  mistakes.

-Peff

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Eric Blake]

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On 01/11/2013 09:47 AM, Jeff King wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 09:39:06AM -0700, Eric Blake wrote:
> 
>>> Please don't answer "y" when git send email shows the following prompt:
>>>

>>
>> Anyone willing to patch upstream 'git send-email' to reject a simple 'y'

> What version of git? Commit 51bbccf is in v1.7.12.1 and higher, and
> says:
> 
>   $ git show 51bbccf
>   commit 51bbccfd1b4a9e2807413022c56ab05c835164fb
>   Author: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
>   Date:   Tue Aug 14 15:15:53 2012 -0700
> 
>   send-email: validate & reconfirm interactive responses
> 
>   People answer 'y' to "Who should the emails appear to be from?"  and
>   'n' to "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
>   for some unknown reason.  While it is possible that your local
>   username really is "y" and you are sending the mail to your local
>   colleagues, it is possible, and some might even say it is likely,
>   that it is a user error.

Awesome!  Already implemented!  In the case that sparked this particular
email, the culprit was using 1.7.3.4; earlier this month, a separate
culprit to the same libvirt mailing list was using 1.7.11.7.

I was right about it needing to take a few months to percolate to the
actual users.

-- 
Eric Blake   eblake redhat com    +1-919-301-3266
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org


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Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Hilco Wijbenga]

On 11 January 2013 08:47, Jeff King <peff@peff.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 09:39:06AM -0700, Eric Blake wrote:
>
>> > Please don't answer "y" when git send email shows the following prompt:
>> >
>> > "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
>> >
>> > you should respond with a message ID there. Unfortunately we have a
>> > growing thread that contains submissions with this mistake.

<snip/>

>   People answer 'y' to "Who should the emails appear to be from?"  and
>   'n' to "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
>   for some unknown reason.  While it is possible that your local
>   username really is "y" and you are sending the mail to your local
>   colleagues, it is possible, and some might even say it is likely,
>   that it is a user error.

I have never used Git's email support so this doesn't affect me one
way or another but it seems that checking the results is fixing the
symptoms, not the problem? I apologize if this was already discussed
but I couldn't find such a discussion.

I was wondering if it might be a better idea to change the wording of
the questions if they have proven so confusing? The first time (just
now) that I read "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first
email?", it clearly seemed like a yes/no question to me. :-)

How about "What Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
or "Provide the Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first
email:". I'm a little surprised that "Who should the emails appear to
be from?" would be interpreted as a yes/no question but we could
rephrase that similarly as "Provide the name of the email sender:" (I
don't really like this particular version but you get the idea).

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Jeff King]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:43:39AM -0800, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:

> >   People answer 'y' to "Who should the emails appear to be from?"  and
> >   'n' to "Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
> >   for some unknown reason.  While it is possible that your local
> >   username really is "y" and you are sending the mail to your local
> >   colleagues, it is possible, and some might even say it is likely,
> >   that it is a user error.
> 
> I have never used Git's email support so this doesn't affect me one
> way or another but it seems that checking the results is fixing the
> symptoms, not the problem? I apologize if this was already discussed
> but I couldn't find such a discussion.

It depends on who you are. If you are the person running send-email,
then the symptom is your confusion. If you are somebody else, the
symptom is somebody else sending out a bogus email. That patch fixes
only the latter. :)

More seriously, I agree that re-wording the question is a reasonable
thing to do. I do not use send-email, either, so I don't have a strong
opinion on it. The suggestions you made:

> How about "What Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
> or "Provide the Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first
> email:".

seem fine to me. Maybe somebody who has been confused by it can offer
more. At any rate, patches welcome.

-Peff

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Matt Seitz (matseitz)]

"Jeff King" <peff@peff.net> wrote in message news:<20130111185417.GA12852@sigill.intra.peff.net>...
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:43:39AM -0800, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> 
> 
> > How about "What Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
> > or "Provide the Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first
> > email:".
> 
> seem fine to me. Maybe somebody who has been confused by it can offer
> more. At any rate, patches welcome.

Suggestion: "Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email:".

Simple and unlikely to generate a "y" or "n" response.  Putting "Message-ID" first makes it more obvious what data is being asked for by this prompt.

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Jeff King]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 08:13:57PM +0000, Matt Seitz (matseitz) wrote:

> > > How about "What Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
> > > or "Provide the Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first
> > > email:".
> > 
> > seem fine to me. Maybe somebody who has been confused by it can offer
> > more. At any rate, patches welcome.
> 
> Suggestion: "Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email:".
> 
> Simple and unlikely to generate a "y" or "n" response.  Putting
> "Message-ID" first makes it more obvious what data is being asked for
> by this prompt.

You'd think. But the existing message that has been causing problems is:

  Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?

which is more or less what you are proposing. I do think a colon rather
than a question mark helps indicate that the response is not yes/no.

-Peff

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Antoine Pelisse]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Jeff King <peff@peff.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 08:13:57PM +0000, Matt Seitz (matseitz) wrote:
>
>> > > How about "What Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
>> > > or "Provide the Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first
>> > > email:".
>> >
>> > seem fine to me. Maybe somebody who has been confused by it can offer
>> > more. At any rate, patches welcome.
>>
>> Suggestion: "Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email:".
>>
>> Simple and unlikely to generate a "y" or "n" response.  Putting
>> "Message-ID" first makes it more obvious what data is being asked for
>> by this prompt.
>
> You'd think. But the existing message that has been causing problems is:
>
>   Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?
>
> which is more or less what you are proposing. I do think a colon rather
> than a question mark helps indicate that the response is not yes/no.

That is true.

I'm definitely not a wording person, but assuming people who make the
mistake probably don't read the whole sentence out of laziness (that
might be somehow extreme though ;), starting it with "what" makes it
obvious at first sight that you can't answer yes/no.
That is not true if the message starts with Message-ID .. which
doesn't look like a question. Now it feels like you have agree or not.

Antoine,

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Junio C Hamano]

Antoine Pelisse <apelisse@gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Jeff King <peff@peff.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 08:13:57PM +0000, Matt Seitz (matseitz) wrote:
>>
>>> > > How about "What Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
>>> > > or "Provide the Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first
>>> > > email:".
>>> >
>>> > seem fine to me. Maybe somebody who has been confused by it can offer
>>> > more. At any rate, patches welcome.
>>>
>>> Suggestion: "Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email:".
>>>
>>> Simple and unlikely to generate a "y" or "n" response.  Putting
>>> "Message-ID" first makes it more obvious what data is being asked for
>>> by this prompt.
>>
>> You'd think. But the existing message that has been causing problems is:
>>
>>   Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email?
>>
>> which is more or less what you are proposing. I do think a colon rather
>> than a question mark helps indicate that the response is not yes/no.
>
> That is true.
>
> I'm definitely not a wording person, but assuming people who make the
> mistake probably don't read the whole sentence out of laziness (that
> might be somehow extreme though ;), starting it with "what" makes it
> obvious at first sight that you can't answer yes/no.
> That is not true if the message starts with Message-ID .. which
> doesn't look like a question. Now it feels like you have agree or not.

The exchange, when you do not have a configuration, goes like this:

    $ git send-email 0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
    0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
    Who should the emails be sent to (if any)? junio
    Are you sure you want to use <junio> [y/N]? y
    Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email (if any)? 

Why not do this instead?

    $ git send-email 0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
    0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
    Who should the emails be sent to (if any)? junio
    Are you sure you want to use <junio> [y/N]? y
    Is this a response to an existing message [y/N]? y
    What is the Message-ID of the message you are replying to?

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Antoine Pelisse]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:
> The exchange, when you do not have a configuration, goes like this:
>
>     $ git send-email 0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
>     0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
>     Who should the emails be sent to (if any)? junio
>     Are you sure you want to use <junio> [y/N]? y
>     Message-ID to be used as In-Reply-To for the first email (if any)?
>
> Why not do this instead?
>
>     $ git send-email 0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
>     0001-filename-of-the-patch.patch
>     Who should the emails be sent to (if any)? junio
>     Are you sure you want to use <junio> [y/N]? y
>     Is this a response to an existing message [y/N]? y

I'm not sure about the extra question. If the user doesn't care, he
will probably use the empty default, which will result in the same
number of steps. If the user cares, he probably knows what he's doing
and will give a sensible value.

>     What is the Message-ID of the message you are replying to?

I would simply go for:

  What Message-ID are you replying to (if any)?

If I don't know what to answer, I would definitely not say y/yes/n/no,
but press enter directly.

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Junio C Hamano]

Antoine Pelisse <apelisse@gmail.com> writes:

> I would simply go for:
>
>   What Message-ID are you replying to (if any)?
>
> If I don't know what to answer, I would definitely not say y/yes/n/no,
> but press enter directly.

Sounds sensible (even though technically you reply to a message
that has that message ID, and not to a message ID ;-)).

Any better phrasing from others?  If not, I'd say we adopt this
text.

Thanks.

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Ben Aveling]

On 12/01/2013 10:54 AM, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> Antoine Pelisse <apelisse@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I would simply go for:
>>
>>    What Message-ID are you replying to (if any)?
>>
>> If I don't know what to answer, I would definitely not say y/yes/n/no,
>> but press enter directly.
> Sounds sensible (even though technically you reply to a message
> that has that message ID, and not to a message ID ;-)).
>
> Any better phrasing from others?  If not, I'd say we adopt this
> text.

I guess it depends on how much we mind if people accidentally miss the 
message ID.

If we don't mind much, we could say something like:

   What Message-ID are you replying to [Default=None]?


If we are concerned that when a Message-ID exists, it should be 
provided, we could split to 2 questions:

   Are you replying to an existing Message [Y/n]?

And then, if the answer is Y,

   What Message-ID are you replying to?

Regards, Ben

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Junio C Hamano]

Ben Aveling <bena.001@optusnet.com.au> writes:

> On 12/01/2013 10:54 AM, Junio C Hamano wrote:
>> Antoine Pelisse <apelisse@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I would simply go for:
>>>
>>>    What Message-ID are you replying to (if any)?
>>>
>>> If I don't know what to answer, I would definitely not say y/yes/n/no,
>>> but press enter directly.
>> Sounds sensible (even though technically you reply to a message
>> that has that message ID, and not to a message ID ;-)).
>>
>> Any better phrasing from others?  If not, I'd say we adopt this
>> text.
>
> I guess it depends on how much we mind if people accidentally miss the
> message ID.
>
> If we don't mind much, we could say something like:
>
>   What Message-ID are you replying to [Default=None]?
>
>
> If we are concerned that when a Message-ID exists, it should be
> provided, we could split to 2 questions:
>
>   Are you replying to an existing Message [Y/n]?
>
> And then, if the answer is Y,
>
>   What Message-ID are you replying to?

Eewww.  Now we come back to full circles.

It sometimes helps to follow the in-reply-to chain to see what has
already been said in the thread, I guess ;-)

Re: git send-email should not allow 'y' for in-reply-to

[Junio C Hamano]

Jeff King <peff@peff.net> writes:

> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:43:39AM -0800, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> ...
> More seriously, I agree that re-wording the question is a reasonable
> thing to do. I do not use send-email, either, so I don't have a strong
> opinion on it. The suggestions you made:
>
>> How about "What Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first email?"
>> or "Provide the Message-ID to use as In-Reply-To for the first
>> email:".
>
> seem fine to me. Maybe somebody who has been confused by it can offer
> more. At any rate, patches welcome.

Has anything come out of this discussion?  Is the current phrasing
fine as-is?