Missing notes, was Re: Notes from the Git Contributors' Summit 2021, virtual, Oct 19/20

Missing notes, was Re: Notes from the Git Contributors' Summit 2021, virtual, Oct 19/20

[Johannes Schindelin]

Hi,

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:

> Team,
>
> we held our second all-virtual Summit over the past two days. It was the
> traditional unconference style meeting, with topics being proposed and
> voted on right before the introduction round. It was really good to see
> the human faces behind those email addresses.
>
> 32 contributors participated, and we spanned the timezones from PST to
> IST. To make that possible, the event took place on two days, from
> 1500-1900 UTC, which meant that the attendees from the US West coast had
> to get up really early, while it was past midnight in India at the end.
>
> I would like to thank all participants for accommodating the time, and in
> particular for creating such a friendly, collaborative atmosphere.
>
> A particular shout-out to Jonathan Nieder, Emily Shaffer and Derrick
> Stolee for taking notes. I am going to send out these notes in per-topic
> subthreads, replying to this mail.
>
> Day 1 topics:
>
> * Crazy (and not so crazy) ideas
> * SHA-256 Updates
> * Server-side merge/rebase: needs and wants?
> * Submodules and how to make them worth using
> * Sparse checkout behavior and plans
>
> Day 2 topics:
>
> * The state of getting a reftable backend working in git.git
> * Documentation (translations, FAQ updates, new user-focused, general
>   improvements, etc.)
> * Let's have public Git chalk talks

You might wonder why I did not send out the notes for this talk.

But that is not true! I sent it 6 times already, in various variations,
and it never came through (but I did get two nastygrams telling me that my
message was rejected because it apparently triggered a filter).

I shall keep trying, but my hopes are pretty low by now.

Ciao,
Johannes

> * Increasing diversity & inclusion (transition to `main`, etc)
> * Improving Git UX
> * Improving reviewer quality of life (patchwork, subsystem lists?, etc)
>
> A few topics were left for a later date (maybe as public Git chalk talks):
>
> * Making Git memory-leak free (already landed patches)
> * Scaling Git
> * Scaling ref advertisements
> * Config-based hooks (and getting there via migration ot hook.[ch] lib &
>   "git hook run")
> * Make git [clone|fetch] support pre-seeding via downloaded *.bundle files
>
> Ciao,
> Johannes
>

Re: Missing notes, was Re: Notes from the Git Contributors' Summit 2021, virtual, Oct 19/20

[Johannes Schindelin]

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Team,

I tried to reply with the full notes, which failed. So I'll try again,
this time in chunks.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
>
> > Team,
> >
> > we held our second all-virtual Summit over the past two days. It was the
> > traditional unconference style meeting, with topics being proposed and
> > voted on right before the introduction round. It was really good to see
> > the human faces behind those email addresses.
> >
> > 32 contributors participated, and we spanned the timezones from PST to
> > IST. To make that possible, the event took place on two days, from
> > 1500-1900 UTC, which meant that the attendees from the US West coast had
> > to get up really early, while it was past midnight in India at the end.
> >
> > I would like to thank all participants for accommodating the time, and in
> > particular for creating such a friendly, collaborative atmosphere.
> >
> > A particular shout-out to Jonathan Nieder, Emily Shaffer and Derrick
> > Stolee for taking notes. I am going to send out these notes in per-topic
> > subthreads, replying to this mail.
> >
> > Day 1 topics:
> >
> > * Crazy (and not so crazy) ideas
> > * SHA-256 Updates
> > * Server-side merge/rebase: needs and wants?
> > * Submodules and how to make them worth using
> > * Sparse checkout behavior and plans
> >
> > Day 2 topics:
> >
> > * The state of getting a reftable backend working in git.git
> > * Documentation (translations, FAQ updates, new user-focused, general
> >   improvements, etc.)
> > * Let's have public Git chalk talks
>
> You might wonder why I did not send out the notes for this talk.
>
> But that is not true! I sent it 6 times already, in various variations,
> and it never came through (but I did get two nastygrams telling me that my
> message was rejected because it apparently triggered a filter).

This session was led by Emily Shaffer. Supporting cast: Ævar Arnfjörð
Bjarmason, brian m. carlson, CB Bailey, and Junio Hamano.

Notes:

 1.  What’s a public chalk talk?

     1.  At Google, once a week, the team meets up with no particular topic in
         mind, or a couple topics, very informal

     2.  One person’s turn each week to give an informal talk with a white
         board (not using chalk)

     3.  Topic should be technical and of interest to the presenter

     4.  For example: how does protocol v2 work

     5.  Collaborative, interactive user session

     6.  Helps by learning about things

     7.  Helps by honing skills like presentation skills

     8.  A lot of (good) humility involved. For example, colleagues who have
         been familiar with the project for a long time admitting they don’t
         know, or have been wrong about things. Makes others feel more
         comfortable with their perceived lack of knowledge

     9.  Could be good for everybody on the Git mailing list, might foster less
         combative communication on the list

     10. Might be a way to attract new people by presenting “old timers” as
         humble

 2.  Does that appeal to anybody else?

to be continued...

>
> I shall keep trying, but my hopes are pretty low by now.
>
> Ciao,
> Johannes
>
> > * Increasing diversity & inclusion (transition to `main`, etc)
> > * Improving Git UX
> > * Improving reviewer quality of life (patchwork, subsystem lists?, etc)
> >
> > A few topics were left for a later date (maybe as public Git chalk talks):
> >
> > * Making Git memory-leak free (already landed patches)
> > * Scaling Git
> > * Scaling ref advertisements
> > * Config-based hooks (and getting there via migration ot hook.[ch] lib &
> >   "git hook run")
> > * Make git [clone|fetch] support pre-seeding via downloaded *.bundle files
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Johannes
> >
>

Re: Missing notes, was Re: Notes from the Git Contributors' Summit 2021, virtual, Oct 19/20

[Johannes Schindelin]

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Continuing... (2nd try, with redactions)

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:

> I tried to reply with the full notes, which failed. So I'll try again,
> this time in chunks.
>
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 21 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> >
> > > Team,
> > >
> > > we held our second all-virtual Summit over the past two days. It was the
> > > traditional unconference style meeting, with topics being proposed and
> > > voted on right before the introduction round. It was really good to see
> > > the human faces behind those email addresses.
> > >
> > > 32 contributors participated, and we spanned the timezones from PST to
> > > IST. To make that possible, the event took place on two days, from
> > > 1500-1900 UTC, which meant that the attendees from the US West coast had
> > > to get up really early, while it was past midnight in India at the end.
> > >
> > > I would like to thank all participants for accommodating the time, and in
> > > particular for creating such a friendly, collaborative atmosphere.
> > >
> > > A particular shout-out to Jonathan Nieder, Emily Shaffer and Derrick
> > > Stolee for taking notes. I am going to send out these notes in per-topic
> > > subthreads, replying to this mail.
> > >
> > > Day 1 topics:
> > >
> > > * Crazy (and not so crazy) ideas
> > > * SHA-256 Updates
> > > * Server-side merge/rebase: needs and wants?
> > > * Submodules and how to make them worth using
> > > * Sparse checkout behavior and plans
> > >
> > > Day 2 topics:
> > >
> > > * The state of getting a reftable backend working in git.git
> > > * Documentation (translations, FAQ updates, new user-focused, general
> > >   improvements, etc.)
> > > * Let's have public Git chalk talks
> >
> > You might wonder why I did not send out the notes for this talk.
> >
> > But that is not true! I sent it 6 times already, in various variations,
> > and it never came through (but I did get two nastygrams telling me that my
> > message was rejected because it apparently triggered a filter).
>
> This session was led by Emily Shaffer. Supporting cast: Ævar Arnfjörð
> Bjarmason, brian m. carlson, CB Bailey, and Junio Hamano.
>
> Notes:
>
>  1.  What’s a public chalk talk?
>
>      1.  At Google, once a week, the team meets up with no particular topic in
>          mind, or a couple topics, very informal
>
>      2.  One person’s turn each week to give an informal talk with a white
>          board (not using chalk)
>
>      3.  Topic should be technical and of interest to the presenter
>
>      4.  For example: how does protocol v2 work
>
>      5.  Collaborative, interactive user session
>
>      6.  Helps by learning about things
>
>      7.  Helps by honing skills like presentation skills
>
>      8.  A lot of (good) humility involved. For example, colleagues who have
>          been familiar with the project for a long time admitting they don’t
>          know, or have been wrong about things. Makes others feel more
>          comfortable with their perceived lack of knowledge
>
>      9.  Could be good for everybody on the Git mailing list, might foster less
>          combative communication on the list
>
>      10. Might be a way to attract new people by presenting “old timers” as
>          humble
>
>  2.  Does that appeal to anybody else?

[redacting a word I suspect to have triggered vger's filter: it is a word
starting with "T" and continuing with "witch". Whenever you read "[itch]",
that's what I substitued for the culprit]

 3.  Ævar: I think it would be great, has been a long time we’ve seen each
     other, and already feels different

 4.  One thing to keep in mind: it’s hard to program on a white board :-)

 5.  Emily: some challenges:

     1. How often?

     2. What time?

     3. Probably move things around (because we’re global)

     4. Tech to use? Jitsi? [itch]? ([itch] seems to be particularly popular to
        teach programming)

     5. Figure out what topics to present

 6.  Ævar: does not matter what tech to use

 7.  Emily: some difference may make it matter: on [itch], you can record, and
     they host recordings

 8.  One thing to worry about recording: people might be reticent to make
     public mistakes

 9.  It’s possible to do a [itch] stream, and not record it

to be continued...
>
> >
> > I shall keep trying, but my hopes are pretty low by now.
> >
> > Ciao,
> > Johannes
> >
> > > * Increasing diversity & inclusion (transition to `main`, etc)
> > > * Improving Git UX
> > > * Improving reviewer quality of life (patchwork, subsystem lists?, etc)
> > >
> > > A few topics were left for a later date (maybe as public Git chalk talks):
> > >
> > > * Making Git memory-leak free (already landed patches)
> > > * Scaling Git
> > > * Scaling ref advertisements
> > > * Config-based hooks (and getting there via migration ot hook.[ch] lib &
> > >   "git hook run")
> > > * Make git [clone|fetch] support pre-seeding via downloaded *.bundle files
> > >
> > > Ciao,
> > > Johannes
> > >
> >

Re: Missing notes, was Re: Notes from the Git Contributors' Summit 2021, virtual, Oct 19/20

[Johannes Schindelin]

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Team,

after 10 failed attempts to send more notes, this might start to get a bit
annoying on my side.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> > >
> > > > * Let's have public Git chalk talks
> > >
> > > You might wonder why I did not send out the notes for this talk.
> > >
> > > But that is not true! I sent it 6 times already, in various variations,
> > > and it never came through (but I did get two nastygrams telling me that my
> > > message was rejected because it apparently triggered a filter).
> >
> > This session was led by Emily Shaffer. Supporting cast: Ævar Arnfjörð
> > Bjarmason, brian m. carlson, CB Bailey, and Junio Hamano.
> >
> > Notes:
> >
> >  1.  What’s a public chalk talk?
> >
> >      1.  At Google, once a week, the team meets up with no particular topic in
> >          mind, or a couple topics, very informal
> >
> >      2.  One person’s turn each week to give an informal talk with a white
> >          board (not using chalk)
> >
> >      3.  Topic should be technical and of interest to the presenter
> >
> >      4.  For example: how does protocol v2 work
> >
> >      5.  Collaborative, interactive user session
> >
> >      6.  Helps by learning about things
> >
> >      7.  Helps by honing skills like presentation skills
> >
> >      8.  A lot of (good) humility involved. For example, colleagues who have
> >          been familiar with the project for a long time admitting they don’t
> >          know, or have been wrong about things. Makes others feel more
> >          comfortable with their perceived lack of knowledge
> >
> >      9.  Could be good for everybody on the Git mailing list, might foster less
> >          combative communication on the list
> >
> >      10. Might be a way to attract new people by presenting “old timers” as
> >          humble
> >
> >  2.  Does that appeal to anybody else?
>
> [redacting a word I suspect to have triggered vger's filter: it is a word
> starting with "T" and continuing with "witch". Whenever you read "[itch]",
> that's what I substitued for the culprit]
>
>  3.  Ævar: I think it would be great, has been a long time we’ve seen each
>      other, and already feels different
>
>  4.  One thing to keep in mind: it’s hard to program on a white board :-)
>
>  5.  Emily: some challenges:
>
>      1. How often?
>
>      2. What time?
>
>      3. Probably move things around (because we’re global)
>
>      4. Tech to use? Jitsi? [itch]? ([itch] seems to be particularly popular to
>         teach programming)
>
>      5. Figure out what topics to present
>
>  6.  Ævar: does not matter what tech to use
>
>  7.  Emily: some difference may make it matter: on [itch], you can record, and
>      they host recordings
>
>  8.  One thing to worry about recording: people might be reticent to make
>      public mistakes
>
>  9.  It’s possible to do a [itch] stream, and not record it

The brian m. carlson offered the idea to be considerate of reservations by
participants, but also accommodate Git contributors who would have loved
to see the presentation but were unable to attend due to timezones, time
conflicts, etc: offer it for viewing only for a short while.

to be continued

> > >
> > > I shall keep trying, but my hopes are pretty low by now.
> > >
> > > Ciao,
> > > Johannes
> > >
> > > > * Increasing diversity & inclusion (transition to `main`, etc)
> > > > * Improving Git UX
> > > > * Improving reviewer quality of life (patchwork, subsystem lists?, etc)
> > > >
> > > > A few topics were left for a later date (maybe as public Git chalk talks):
> > > >
> > > > * Making Git memory-leak free (already landed patches)
> > > > * Scaling Git
> > > > * Scaling ref advertisements
> > > > * Config-based hooks (and getting there via migration ot hook.[ch] lib &
> > > >   "git hook run")
> > > > * Make git [clone|fetch] support pre-seeding via downloaded *.bundle files
> > > >
> > > > Ciao,
> > > > Johannes
> > > >
> > >
>

Re: Missing notes, was Re: Notes from the Git Contributors' Summit 2021, virtual, Oct 19/20

[Johannes Schindelin]

Team,

If I did not have the impression that this was an important topic, I would
definitely stop trying to send the notes on this session.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021, Johannes Schindelin wrote:

> Then brian m. carlson offered the idea to be considerate of reservations
> by participants, but also accommodate Git contributors who would have
> loved to see the presentation but were unable to attend due to
> timezones, time conflicts, etc: offer it for viewing only for a short
> while.

CB then said that it would be nice to see the other contributors face to
face, and that they really liked the idea. But they still hoped that this
new Git talk series would not replace the other things we do.

Another point was raised by Emily: in their internal meetings, they often
talk about Git patch series that are in progress, or not even started.
Some ideas to improve Git might even be rejected, and it should be a safe
space to bring up these Git ideas. In other words, the discussions are
somewhat ephemeral and therefore it would not make sense to keep records
of them forever.

to be continued

Ciao,
Johannes