From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925F41F5AE for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 12:19:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728991AbgGBMTJ (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:19:09 -0400 Received: from whinis.com ([198.205.115.165]:33918 "EHLO whinis.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728661AbgGBMTI (ORCPT ); Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:19:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whinis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9827C51DC; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:19:07 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=whinis.com; s=mail; t=1593692347; bh=QO82CxSTZw5oLR4FqdTN/gwO7dkZhLHMsUbOywSvH5k=; h=To:Cc:References:Subject:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=WepbLphVtwwS3xfbfHR+2To0/VmX3eJGjCULe9SXnxF3e9G4oRJOhqY2vZ7BnKb8O ZuW/mcUFT1xdI1Da2Cg+jfaKJQMqrH1HecERLau6lzvS1DWldGXJ/IrL6tufKKQFtL 3WvPNM58xynYxU9n6I8o2LmINMBOwTFQ7wkh4iTY= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at whinis.com Received: from whinis.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (asgard.whinis.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZsF9o9s1yvJf; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.117] (c-73-139-109-188.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [73.139.109.188]) by whinis.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 090CB7C51DB; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:19:04 -0400 (EDT) To: peff@peff.net Cc: bturner@atlassian.com, git@vger.kernel.org, james@jramsay.com.au, me@ttaylorr.com, msuchanek@suse.de References: <20200701215744.GA952178@coredump.intra.peff.net> Subject: Re: Consensus on a new default branch name From: Whinis Message-ID: <16f1c63a-8b30-e95e-50d1-c5baa9a72fa4@whinis.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:21:35 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200701215744.GA952178@coredump.intra.peff.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Peff, With all respect I have yet to see any evidence actually presented against master either. The original list makes the claim its offensive and everyone I have asked on other forums just says its obvious its offensive but cannot say how it is without resorting to `Do you not find enslaving humans offensive`. About all we have is twitter where you can easily find people saying its time to go and that changing it makes them feel worse as they had no problem with it and yet its being forced through in their name. L makes a case with research that the initial claim was also not made in good faith at https://lore.kernel.org/git/20200621195023.3881634-1-lkcl@lkcl.net/ . The link is also more on the master/slave depart but many of the points researched cover this one as well. I like that you want to err on the side of empathy but based on how most of these changes have been forced through their communities I do not think the ones arguing for this would do the same for you. As can partially be seen with the claim that there is no amount of work that can justify continuing to use master or a host of other terms. My personal feeling is it should not change as while many on this list certainly are speaking in good faith and want to help the momentum behind the change very much is not. While I know its not part of this list check out the gitlab issue where they finally opened it back up for discussion at https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/221164 and it adds onto those that seem to argue for attack any who argue against. If a change is going to be made that will affect million of developers and possibly break thousands to millions of applications  I would say that you need a mountain of proof and not what has been seen so far. If I may ask what is the intended result of the change if it cannot be measured? -Whinis