From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on starla X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS,URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3087B1F44D for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 07:06:06 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: dcvr.yhbt.net; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=cs.ucla.edu header.i=@cs.ucla.edu header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C header.b=DiEDHPYt; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rynkP-0006Kb-2X; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 03:05:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rynkM-0006KR-Kr for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 03:05:50 -0400 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rynkK-0001EN-8h for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 03:05:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DCC23C011BD8; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 00:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10032) with ESMTP id Qp788axGCkoE; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 00:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A713C00E40B; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 00:05:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 92A713C00E40B DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1713769542; bh=enttRMI8faxS+bRF0pLsk4cckHaXNJh+SZjZ2Wa+cQA=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=DiEDHPYtpwquRPcLwFjCevKwUIkoBwAsR1eOLYn3a9Hg0DWi1BbdHtcRoQ3+UI+lo c76JDUUeYngRVAuc48Y5vyWRXb2LgSE7ONh/W+OwNU3ncdUkbFIX8W6j4oZsTHz9p+ atgtiNR6gyOoh2/iXEBcr3ELZLOZsWHLHzQ6SAZymIyoZp8OVXC9MXCdIj7SXlyTmO hl6/DNbnuKbZEMe22cvs6uymEmRVFW8d52ufS2/2VHNwPyVssXZ/B94hCcQ5z8cQLw tQz/GI/18Iq7FtBJsYE30qD30uBIsOkj5nfY5Wm3Wv1RiwUspH91tlqZFt5kuTrq4u jkxPhhZg8fTSQ== X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP id ia0a5u9SdbQv; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 00:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.254.12] (unknown [47.154.17.165]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 735223C011BD8; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 00:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 00:05:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: future Python evolution To: Bruno Haible , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, Bernhard Voelker References: <17575364.8ZXASUQcjA@nimes> <21066443.Wb1LW67PtU@nimes> <0a611e5a-7d91-45e2-abd7-a0b89f418aa7@cs.ucla.edu> <5499607.jPvoZBoKHK@nimes> Content-Language: en-US From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <5499607.jPvoZBoKHK@nimes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=131.179.128.66; envelope-from=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; helo=mail.cs.ucla.edu X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_SBL_A=0.1 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: bug-gnulib@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gnulib discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnulib-bounces+normalperson=yhbt.net@gnu.org Sender: bug-gnulib-bounces+normalperson=yhbt.net@gnu.org On 2024-04-21 15:38, Bruno Haible wrote: > Hi Paul, >=20 >>> But the concepts of the shell are stuck in the 40-years-ago past. >> >> True, but keeping things simple allows for optimizations like PaSH tha= t >> can't reasonably be done to Python. >> >> https://binpa.sh/ >=20 > Well, I did try PaSh on gnulib-tool =E2=80=94 this issue [1] is a testi= mony. I agree that PaSh is not ready to tackle 'configure' scripts yet.=20 However, it's promising and I wouldn't expect similar promise from=20 Python script acceleration. A better way to exploit PaSh would be to modify Autoconf to use it=20 effectively. This of course would be nontrivial, though it shouldn't be=20 *that* hard. > But what can you expect from a parallelization approach? On, say, a > quad-core processor you can expect at most a 4x speedup. Quad-core is not the wave of the future. Even the three-year-old (and=20 now discontinued) Xeon W-1350 I'm typing this on (which was trailing=20 edge and bottom of the line when it came out - hey, I'm a cheapskate!)=20 is 6 cores and 12 threads. And if you've been following recent CPU news=20 you're aware of the big core counts coming down the pipeline. We should=20 be engineering for these future systems, and not worry too much about=20 yesterday's quad-core CPUs. And if one can't get a decent single node to develop on, there's always=20 DiSh on the horizon.... https://github.com/binpash/dish