From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS22989 209.51.188.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B1741F910 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2022 00:04:19 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: dcvr.yhbt.net; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="UpH1EbZV"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouiiv-0002Wx-AT; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 18:18:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ouieU-000389-Is for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 18:14:06 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.124]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oueEU-0003rP-2N for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:30:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1668450657; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DSCzkB7yn98Ag+w6MWaYKl3QonzCXugwRKmPistd2y4=; b=UpH1EbZVdxCsDEhWeOW7PBDrEcpbq6R+czKCVEb8BYK+0bsRRokab8Ijl+r7XtVaxA1+B/ 7GnxHiYAMG23/ht8bY7LIS2dkuKxEeThdU/ayg66QvzPhpN7jHgY/EszaLdNQ1ibncQ6oM izC1oc38H1/p4PkbaUceYMyxgYFhJbs= Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mimecast-mx02.redhat.com [66.187.233.88]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-92-4CRwiCl9PvabV0C3B2996w-1; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:30:52 -0500 X-MC-Unique: 4CRwiCl9PvabV0C3B2996w-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FF5F858F13; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 18:30:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from oldenburg.str.redhat.com (unknown [10.2.16.5]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD74849BB60; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 18:30:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Florian Weimer To: Paul Eggert Cc: Aaron Ballman , Zack Weinberg , c-std-porting@lists.linux.dev, autoconf@gnu.org, gcc@gcc.gnu.org, cfe-commits@lists.llvm.org, Gnulib bugs Subject: Re: How can Autoconf help with the transition to stricter compilation defaults? References: <24ed5604-305a-4343-a1b6-a789e4723849@app.fastmail.com> <251923e7-57be-1611-be10-49c3067adf0d@cs.ucla.edu> <7ef0ce03-d908-649a-a6ee-89fea374d2b1@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 19:30:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Paul Eggert's message of "Mon, 14 Nov 2022 10:14:07 -0800") Message-ID: <87y1sdtmll.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.1 on 10.11.54.9 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=fweimer@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: bug-gnulib@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gnulib discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnulib-bounces+normalperson=yhbt.net@gnu.org Sender: bug-gnulib-bounces+normalperson=yhbt.net@gnu.org * Paul Eggert: > On 2022-11-14 04:41, Aaron Ballman wrote: >> it's generally a problem when autoconf relies on invalid >> language constructs > > Autoconf *must* rely on invalid language constructs, if only to test > whether the language constructs work. And Clang therefore must be > careful about how it diagnoses invalid constructs. Clang shouldn't > willy-nilly change the way it reports invalid constructs, as that can > break Autoconf. This is only true for the status quo. We could finally band together and define an interface between autoconf and the toolchain that avoids feature probing through source code fragments for common cases. It might make configure scripts to run quite a bit faster, too. That being said, system compilers need to be careful when turning warnings into errors by default, but that doesn't mean we should never do such changes, particularly when we know based on interactions with programmers that the warnings are not sufficient for avoiding wasted time. Thanks, Florian