From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS22989 209.51.188.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82B841F8C8 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2021 01:19:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:55802 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mRlUZ-00076u-Fk for normalperson@yhbt.net; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 21:19:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38434) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mRlUN-00076Y-3J for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 21:19:27 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([81.169.146.221]:10372) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mRlUK-0004LX-NA for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 21:19:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1632014362; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Cc:Date: From:Subject:Sender; bh=CrSfqDzpplmw7cqZyRW3m17uv7KfhhhF/LDZBQoHBgQ=; b=g7lwG4ZWSNeeXJn9F3v5cZgwm8DXoczOPj7h0hH45503HgqPIlPLRXP+nSwKsG4imJ sNdQvdRo/DxJ3VeCtimMGolB6jQo7B73P1R9reVPkEUvCjhXwzBI2OmTiRfjejVRtzTt dxstqkyRcQDtDOsH/LP40Z4nHzzUdKfsUyVm23r7FsvnlwhxZKpa+Sb0o7JQQKGCJiMV qSnJJGwM4huTCPM+FeGjdvb1yKHIgXDAzwGjs+P0NpIKctDuUJhDJVnHa03St4J2X3IW ble4MqQgahxsvtp76GQEMB3GkUDyM9hCmIf6GEpSWqz8k9/nRqdtnSdc+7Vmu080Aj3w j6sQ== Authentication-Results: strato.com; dkim=none X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH0WWb0LN8XZoH94z26ll5ip69lkUKBHnc9BR1mBmBWN4bsqAubPA==" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from omega.localnet by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 47.33.1 AUTH) with ESMTPSA id c0304dx8J1JLOo2 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sun, 19 Sep 2021 03:19:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Colin Watson Subject: Re: gendering Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 03:19:21 +0200 Message-ID: <2784593.UtaOMtURT2@omega> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: none client-ip=81.169.146.221; envelope-from=bruno@clisp.org; helo=mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: bug-gnulib@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Gnulib discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: bug-gnulib@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnulib-bounces+normalperson=yhbt.net@gnu.org Sender: "bug-gnulib" This gendering stuff is generally off-topic on this list, but it came up he= re, therefore I'm replying here. I hope the thread will be short, since so much has already been written on this topic. Hi Colin, You wrote: > CCing Bruno since this was their commit and they might want to have a loo= k. While I understand the motivation of gendered language, and myself use "they/their/them" when talking about an *unidentified* individual in English =E2=80=94 so as to be inclusive and not offend the Sarahs and Leahs of this= world =E2=80=94, in return I ask that you and others treat me as a human. Not as a number. Not as an email address. But as an *identified* person. In this role, I have a first name and a last name. And as usual in Western culture, the first name gives a good clue about the gender. When my first name is used in the US, it has 100% probability of being a male's first name [1]. Like yours has a 99.6% probability [2]. Therefore please apply a bit of common sense when talking about me. Some people might say "just add (he/his) to your signature". I say NO. =46or the vast majority of people in Western culture, the gender can be inferred from the first name. The Sarahs and Leahs of this world are a minority, and it's wrong for a minority to dictate what the majority should do. So, please be respectful to me. Thanks. Bruno [1] https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dgettext.git;a=3Dblob;f=3Dlibte= xtstyle/examples/color-hello/names.c;h=3Dbf8af3630a0e86198da3d0f0c93ba8e031= 8d048d;hb=3DHEAD#l13244 [2] https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dgettext.git;a=3Dblob;f=3Dlibte= xtstyle/examples/color-hello/names.c;h=3Dbf8af3630a0e86198da3d0f0c93ba8e031= 8d048d;hb=3DHEAD#l18142