From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS22989 209.51.188.0/24 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5692E1F5AE for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:11:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42694 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsXO1-0002q9-3u for normalperson@yhbt.net; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 17:11:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60994) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsXNx-0002mz-9B for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 17:11:13 -0400 Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([81.169.146.221]:26701) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsXNv-0006HU-1U for bug-gnulib@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 17:11:13 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1623618668; cv=none; d=strato.com; s=strato-dkim-0002; b=EJDXGZeu/yGH90IDUfgiIECQ1EMnFN4wutxQUkL2vqO6d6uGv4Wey+3bJkCebBQfnd cC218hz4NWYuw5WDAkk8x9AVBBy0ca67YQmlHEOj0MDZ6Myi7Hv8EWv8rR3C6tHqrz9z X6kqgb2BiPE9ABN+1cLK4ntL2fpWhQ7nhPznewWsz87Ur8wizTeLwbmjIcX4j9CCfAWI 0xRRJ4HOcSZ3r3I5i/C7Ew/Yq1h1WGkEuqBfRBuI4TrSMuo8LTO9PIqDdYKwZRDcb59c MCvKQcBk39Whf5dW3jXVEiclU7Dz9PXuViYBW8fejocxVtItHoRzKptVUjNYJ/n6nXq4 OewQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1623618668; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=strato.com; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Cc:Date: From:Subject:Sender; bh=tHT8CJ1VSGnwuM59VhXTTx+6PlWTNwWRHp27L2xhyi4=; b=bsN4wFcHKCASsYx+EjMejJsZqDacv7hqcRqz+D/BMmR4+vsV7Pq5psxGBEUzJSEN7s PGcs8e/0RVq1zGyZe1BpBCyoUTummQxBSbr6JR5QyqtE2pHU3RLETMQNcYCjYTLlHsdd IPpO/19DfRmP4/vgG5iv6CkBle4gntyoEn3m7dNJWoekk9Yx2W3F70cR8IInHg6NVm8E 7oN0NDvrdBKQzMX1xFm4L0HwVwJ3diIkZPGKhRR40sm1Q4gahUOMuSG/c+xPVJRRgtJW V0eO9ubIB0K28Cx2bcgey+hX7iASc8lgnEuTkReik3cU9CoBoNuQa2CSiwuwgeemcdBU iebA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; strato.com; dkim=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1623618668; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=clisp.org; h=References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From:Cc:Date: From:Subject:Sender; bh=tHT8CJ1VSGnwuM59VhXTTx+6PlWTNwWRHp27L2xhyi4=; b=q0NW5JUBLN7G+n6MuWB8R1HFW1ZZozvmZmTw9owQujVlksAldupEp5T2Gw08zks8Ng WWBMwvOSu5yBoKZUza49R31TNg9/H+r1FVFl4zXnFcXaSObP2mLvMj0Znc0tYyJN92em A4ryqbwUr4zYTOtt5w84vlBl581iJDIT13/6m7bDMgGM2GzA9d0zZAlvzAO6GVkfWm7H T6niisf7cZLhnzU1bWKpHK7CjafXVPdv5z/WZl4T4Gm5ko/vXi9dqaAOa65pcz/3lJhD fst9UBoUlZu2gZaDLxaqnt0qZn4Rd20Ebt4ASr2kKPJdOMjMJx9oU+7KddW/fPIe+PZK EPEw== Authentication-Results: strato.com; dkim=none X-RZG-AUTH: ":Ln4Re0+Ic/6oZXR1YgKryK8brlshOcZlIWs+iCP5vnk6shH+AHjwLuWOHqf3z5NW" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from bruno.haible.de by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 47.27.2 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id q0869dx5DLB7siq (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (curve X9_62_prime256v1 with 256 ECDH bits, eq. 3072 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sun, 13 Jun 2021 23:11:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Bruno Haible To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: general comments about gnulib Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 23:11:06 +0200 Message-ID: <2704683.Hb787fYIGj@omega> User-Agent: KMail/5.1.3 (Linux/4.4.0-210-generic; KDE/5.18.0; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <111e3305-4023-415b-3631-653b87a09e2c@cs.ucla.edu> References: <43737965.862IWm2pC9@omega> <111e3305-4023-415b-3631-653b87a09e2c@cs.ucla.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Received-SPF: none client-ip=81.169.146.221; envelope-from=bruno@clisp.org; helo=mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de X-Spam_score_int: -22 X-Spam_score: -2.3 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.144, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: bug-gnulib@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Gnulib discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: bug-gnulib@gnu.org, Reuben Thomas Errors-To: bug-gnulib-bounces+normalperson=yhbt.net@gnu.org Sender: "bug-gnulib" Paul Eggert wrote: > I must say that I am starting to reach my limits in debugging this sort > of thing. We have quite a pyramid of hacks here, involving more than > just the usual multilevel combination of make, m4, sh, and sed along > with Git submodules etc. Yes, these GL_GNULIB_* variables whose name depends on the gnulib-tool invocation require even more attention and care during problem analysis. And when developing patches in this area, things are so complex that I need a written-up plan, because it's impossible to keep the details in memory. > And 'gnulib-tool', 'configure' > and 'make check' are so verrryy slow; to find the commit that caused the > problem, I had to run 'git bisect' overnight because my circa-2005 > Solaris 10 sparc machine is not as fast as modern machines. This is a > long way from my traditional way of developing where I edited a Makefile > and typed 'make' (and that was already too slow!). It's similar on a more modern machine (with GNU grep): time ./bootstrap 99 sec. time ./configure 33 sec. time make 18 sec. time make check 114 sec. ------------------ -------- TOTAL 264 sec. Yes, a build cycle of 4 minutes requires a different kind of developing. In these situations, I typically prepare a script that I can run 100 times, and turn to other things while the script is running. Speeding up 'gnulib-tool' would not help much in this situation. It might reduce the build cycle from 4 minutes to 3 minutes (if it were highly optimized), but that does not change the basic situation. > I don't have a solution to this problem, and to some extent am just venting. It's OK. That's what a mailing list is for :) Bruno